In this episode, Reuben Saltzman and Tessa Murry discuss the nuances of home inspections, focusing on the balance between technical reporting and addressing homeowner concerns. They explore the evolution of infrared technology, the importance of understanding client needs, and the standards for reporting issues during inspections. The conversation emphasizes the significance of communication and the need for inspectors to listen to their clients to ensure a satisfactory experience. In this conversation, Tessa Murry and Reuben Saltzman discuss the complexities of home inspections, focusing on the balance between thorough reporting and effective communication with clients. They share personal experiences that highlight the challenges inspectors face when identifying and reporting issues, particularly electrical problems and structural concerns. The discussion emphasizes the importance of context in inspections, the need for clear communication with clients, and best practices for reporting findings to ensure that clients understand the significance of the issues identified.
The blog posts discussed in this episode can be found by clicking on the links below:
Thermal Master P2: An awesome infrared camera for $179 (for a limited time) https://structuretech.com/thermal-master-p2/
Decks attached through brick veneer:
https://structuretech.com/decks-attached-through-brick-veneer/
Vermiculite insulation:
https://structuretech.com/new-information-vermiculite-attic-insulation/
Takeaways
The importance of effective communication with clients.
Home inspectors should reach out to clients before inspections.
Technology in home inspection has significantly advanced.
Homeowners often have unique concerns that need addressing.
Documentation of client concerns is crucial for satisfaction.
Understanding the context of a homeowner’s worries is key.
Reporting standards can vary based on client needs.
Infrared cameras have become more accessible and effective.
Home inspectors must balance technical knowledge with customer service.
Listening to clients can prevent complaints and enhance experiences. Home inspectors must balance thoroughness with practicality in reporting.
Understanding electrical issues is crucial for home safety.
Context is key when evaluating home inspection findings.
Clear communication with clients can alleviate anxiety about reported issues
Not all reported issues require immediate action or concern.
Choosing battles wisely can maintain professional relationships.
Providing solutions or directions for repairs enhances client trust.
Experience helps inspectors discern what to report and what to omit.
Home inspection reports should focus on significant issues to avoid overwhelming clients.
Continuous learning and sharing of knowledge within the industry is vital.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Overview of the Podcast
07:28 The Evolution of Infrared Technology
11:50 Understanding Homeowner Concerns
15:45 Reporting Standards in Home Inspections
17:34 Reflections on Experience and Learning
20:01 Understanding Electrical Issues in Home Inspections
23:52 The Balance of Reporting and Client Communication
28:41 Contextualizing Home Inspection Findings
34:08 Best Practices for Home Inspection Reporting
TRANSCRIPTION
The following is a transcription from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it may be slightly incomplete or contain minor inaccuracies due to inaudible passages or transcription errors.
Reuben Saltzman: Welcome to my house. Welcome to the Structure Talk Podcast, a production of Structure Tech Home Inspections. My name is Reuben Saltzman. I’m your host alongside building science geek, Tessa Murry. We help home inspectors up their game through education, and we help homeowners to be better stewards of their houses. We’ve been keeping it real on this podcast since 2019, and we are also the number one home inspection podcast in the world, according to my mom.
RS: Welcome back to the show. Tessa, this is the quickest start we have ever had to a podcast, I think. We have had guests for like the last three months, it feels like.
Tessa Murry: Yeah.
RS: And every time we have a guest, it’s a lot of, all right, is the mic working? Is the camera working? Here’s the rules. Here’s how it works. Don’t log off right away. It’s all this preamble for 10 to 15 minutes. Today I just logged on. I said, should we go? Yeah, let’s go. All right.
[laughter]
TM: Let’s do it. Let’s dive into it. We did have a little pre phone call so that we could get on the same page.
RS: At least we know what we’re talking about.
TM: At least we know what we’re talking about, right? [laughter]
RS: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, but before we get into the topic today, and, you know, the topic is gonna be, how much is too much to report on? What’s the right level of reporting? What’s too much, what’s not enough from a home inspection perspective? I’m excited to talk about this, but before we get into it, just a couple little things. You know, normally when we get the guests on, we don’t do a whole lot of chitchat ’cause we wanna give that time to our guests. But, couple little things going on. Number one, I just did a review of a infrared camera this company sent me to test out. I had tested out one of their cam… I think I tested out one of their cameras about a year ago. It was called the Infrared something or another. I don’t remember. But they, the same guy, he said, “Hey, I’m working with this company now and I’m wondering if you could test out this infrared camera? It’s called the Thermal Master P2.” And it’s, he called it, it’s called the world’s second smallest infrared camera. And the one that I had previously reviewed was the world’s smallest infrared camera. So, and they run off the exact same software, so they surely know each other, but it’s not the same name.
TM: Huh. Is this a handheld device or something you plug into your phone?
RS: You plug it into your phone, and if you wanna check it out, just go to the website and go to the blog on our website. And by the time this podcast airs, it’ll probably, the blog review will probably be about two to three, maybe even four weeks old. And it’s called the Thermal Master P2, crazy awesome infrared camera for $179.
[laughter]
RS: Something like that. And, I mean, it’s tiny. It’s…
TM: You’re holding it up to the camera for all of our listeners and it is so small, it looks like it’s a tiny little rectangle, but it’s like the size of a quarter almost.
RS: Yeah. Yeah. It’s about the size of a quarter.
TM: Or like an SD card. Do people remember SD cards? [laughter]
RS: [laughter] Yes. Yes. Those are still a thing, I’m sure.
TM: Yeah.
RS: I think some cameras still take an SD card.
TM: Yeah.
RS: Yeah. It’s about the thickness of about four SD cards stacked on top of each other.
TM: Oh my gosh.
RS: Of course its tiny.
TM: Incredible.
RS: And so it plugs right in your mobile device. And this thing kind of knocked my socks off.
TM: Really.
RS: I was super impressed with it. It retails for $249, but right now they’ve got this coupon for $50 off. I hope the coupon is still applicable by the time this podcast airs.
TM: Yeah.
RS: But they got a $50 off instant coupon on Amazon. And then there’s this other discount code they gave me. It’s MasterP2. You enter that at Amazon checkout to take another 20 bucks off or so.
TM: Wow.
RS: Bringing the price down to like $179.08. And the resolution on this, I mean, I did side to side comparisons with the FLIR E6, which has kind of been our workhorse at Structure Tech. That’s a standalone gun style infrared camera. And I did side by side image comparisons and this thing kicks butt. It’s way better than the FLIR E6.
TM: What! You’re kidding. Oh my gosh. Wow.
RS: Yeah. No. It has tired thermal sensitivity, which is the ability to distinguish between subtle temperature differences, and it has better resolution. The resolution is 192 by 256.
TM: Wow.
RS: And they advertise it as actually twice that, like 384 by 512. And they say that it’s some type of software conversion that upscales it or something. Whatever it is, it’s super impressive. Super handy for diagnosing problems.
TM: Yeah.
RS: And, you know, it’s not something that I would use as a home inspector because I like to have a standalone device. I don’t like something plugged into my phone where, you know, I might drop it or something, but I think it’s handy for any home inspector to have if their camera conks out or their batteries die or it breaks or they lose it or whatever. If you want a backup, it’s a crazy good backup camera for 180 bucks. So if you’re in the market for an infrared camera, you wanna test it out, you need a backup, something like that, strongly recommend this little guy. I do not get endorsed by them. I don’t get any kickbacks, nothing like that. So I’m not, you know, I’m not selling you this.
TM: Well, after this you should. [laughter]
RS: I should. I absolutely should. Well, you know what, it’s not entirely true. If you use the Amazon link on my blog, I get a little kickback from Amazon. I mean, any Amazon links I post, I get a little something, you know, maybe like 1%. It’s not much.
TM: Wow. Yeah. Yeah.
RS: But I… So just to say, I’m not like getting some $50 commission if you buy one of these cameras. I’m just mentioning it ’cause I think it’s an amazing product.
TM: Yeah. Well, I, you know, I cannot believe how far technology has come. Like I remember using infrared cameras back in the day, like, you know, doing weatherization stuff. And, I mean, they were clunky, they were heavy. They’d take forever to turn on and warm up and calibrate. And a lot of times the software had glitches and, you know, it’s just, and they’d cost thousands of dollars, and here you are.
RS: And you had to focus them. Remember you had to manually focus the cameras?
TM: Yes, focus. Yes. You’d kind of twist it to focus it.
RS: Yes.
TM: And now here you are holding up this little tiny device that could just fit in your back pocket and you could easily lose it. And it’s $179 and the image is just as good or better…
RS: Yes. Yes.
TM: As some of these bigger cameras. So that just blows my mind.
RS: And now the downside, Tess.
TM: Yeah.
RS: It is not yet available for iPhones. Whomp, whomp.
TM: Oh, oh. I knew it was too good to be true.
RS: Yeah.
TM: Okay.
RS: Yeah. It’s only available for Android devices right now.
TM: Yeah.
RS: They said they’re gonna be coming out with a version for iPhone very soon, but he didn’t say when.
TM: Yeah. Okay. Well, that’s next. That’ll be next.
RS: Yep. I hope so. My dog is going nuts.
TM: Hey Sarge.
RS: What are we gonna do? Yeah. All right.
[laughter]
TM: We haven’t heard him on the podcast in a while. It’s good…
RS: Yeah, he’s…
TM: Good to know he’s still there.
RS: He’s making an appearance ’cause the UPS guy’s here, so he’s going nuts. Don’t mind him.
TM: Nice, nice. Well, that’s pretty cool.
RS: Yeah. So had to share that. Tessa, what’s new in your world? How is your business going? You got any great stories to share?
TM: Yeah, you know, I’ve, it’s interesting. Yeah, I’ve been doing more client, just kinda one-on-ones with homeowners and it’s, you know, there’s such a need for I think people that just have a general understanding of all the different systems of a house. And I think home inspectors kind of get this because, you know, you have to know about roofing and siding and plumbing and electrical and HVAC and all that to be able to evaluate the house. But what I’m doing is just kind of coming in and helping homeowners navigate kind of all the different things that are going on and help them prioritize, you know, maintenance and repairs and upgrades and giving them just kind of this unbiased opinion. Because a lot of times they have like one issue going on and they’ll have someone who just kind of focuses on that issue come in and give them their opinion. And sometimes they’ll have three different opinions from three different people on that one system, but no one else is looking at all the other things going on too.
RS: Yeah.
TM: There might be more important things. So, it was interesting, I had someone I went out to recently. They’re in like a hundred year old house in Minneapolis, which, you know, that might sound old for some people in this country where the housing stock is like, you know, the oldest you get is 1950s, but we got a lot of 1920s and 1900s and stuff like that. And anyways, she was really worried about asbestos and, you know, there’s reason to be, it can cause health problems as we know, and so she had a boiler that was like a hundred years old. It was like original to the house and it was wrapped in asbestos insulation. And that was the first thing that she had remediated. And the price on getting that system removed from her house has like tripled from…
RS: Oh my.
TM: What I remember it being back when we were inspecting a few years ago. So that was one thing. And just, you know, it turns out she had vermiculite in her attic that her inspector never found. It was underneath the cellulose. So she was, you know, just so concerned about the removal and the remediation of that asbestos on her boiler pipes and on her boiler. She super cleaned everything in her house after that. And then here I am having to tell her that she, yes, she does have vermiculite in her attic.
RS: And that’s a much bigger concern.
TM: It is. And she had, I mean, she had had someone recently go up and install a New Bath fan in her upstairs bathroom. And so they had been doing work up in the attic and cutting a hole in the ceiling and all that. I didn’t wanna freak her out about talking about, you know, what effect that could have on indoor air quality if you’re having vermiculite, you know, coming in through your ceiling into your living space. But, I just, you know, the best thing I can do is just give her the information and, you know, let her do her own research and send her to the, what’s it, the website for homeowners that have vermiculite. There’s a…
RS: Vermiculite Attic Insulation Trust?
TM: Yes. The trust fund that’s set up. And let her know about that. And I think she’s gonna probably have it all remediated, but it’s a huge expense, you know?
RS: Yeah.
TM: And it’s something she wasn’t aware of and wasn’t planning on. And she’s to the point where she’s like, I just, I have so much anxiety, I don’t even know if I can stay in the house.
RS: Oh my goodness. Urgh.
TM: So going, I think this kind of ties into what we’re talking about today, Reuben. I know you wanted to discuss kind of what to report on, what not to report on, what’s right and what’s wrong. And I don’t know if it’s that black or white, but I think one thing that I’ve learned over the years is that it just depends on the homeowner too and the client. Like, who’s buying the house? What are their concerns? And you have to make sure as a home inspector that you are listening to that person and that you understand what their concerns are so that you can give them information that matters to them.
RS: Yes.
TM: ‘Cause everybody has a different lens of what’s important and what’s not.
RS: Yes. Oh, that is so important, Tessa. And I mean, it’s so important that we started changing our policy around what we do before the inspection. We don’t just send out an email asking, do you have any concerns? We actually have our home inspectors reach out to every client before the inspection. We found the best response we get is by texting them.
TM: Yeah. That’s amazing.
RS: The inspector always texts them, saying, “Hey, I’m gonna be doing your inspection tomorrow or later today. What big concerns did you have that I can be aware of? And if there’s anything, give me a call. We can chat.” I mean, just reaching out for that initial contact to figure out what the client is concerned about. What are their hot buttons? And whatever you do, make sure you’re writing it down. Maybe they have the conversation on site. Whatever it is, make sure it’s written down. Make sure that you cover all of it when you’re talking with the client and make sure you put stuff about it in the report.
TM: Yeah.
RS: Like, you know, the client says, okay, I got these cracks in my wood posts on my deck and I’m super concerned about it. And it’s on my mind because I’m doing a blog post about it right now. It’s actually called Checking.
[laughter]
RS: And it’s never a concern, but people are concerned about it and…
TM: Yeah.
RS: Even though it’s a nothing item and I would never take photos and document checking ’cause it’s nothing, it just happens to wood. But if my client brought it up as a concern, I would put it in the report. I’d take photos of it and I’d say there was checking on the wood posts. This is normal, it happens as the lumber dries out and it’s not a concern. I would be proactive about addressing it just to make sure in case they forgot our conversation, yes, I did see it and it’s not an issue. So I mean, to your point, Tess, it’s so important to address your client’s concerns.
TM: Yeah. I mean, you can be the best technical inspector that there is and you can know everything there is to know about every single part of a house, but unless that client feels heard, they may not have a good experience.
RS: So true.
TM: And so it’s all about, I mean, it’s about doing a good technical inspection, but it’s also about customer satisfaction. And I think you do that by listening to the client, hearing their concerns and then as you mentioned, talking about it and probably documenting it too.
RS: Yep, yep. And, you know, some of the, we don’t get a whole lot of complaints, but when we do get complaints, it’s typically about not including inconsequential stuff that the client was concerned about. So it’s not like it was technically a miss, but we didn’t do a good job of listening and addressing our client’s concerns.
TM: Yeah.
RS: That leads to complaints.
TM: Yes.
RS: So we do our darnedest to make sure that we’re covering all those bases, every single time.
TM: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So what was the comment that inspired this podcast today, Reuben?
RS: Well, not too long ago we did… Well, no, it was a while ago where we did a podcast with Mike Casey and then I kinda lost the podcast [laughter] and then found it and published it. And during that podcast, I told the story about how one of our inspectors got shocked by some metal duct work that wasn’t properly bonded to the rest of the furnace. And it ended up getting electrified. And Mike Casey said, yeah, technically all that metal duct work should be bonded. And I’m kind of scratching my head. I’m like, what the heck does a bond look like?
TM: Yeah.
RS: And I don’t even remember, I don’t know if Mike Casey had an answer for that. He’s like, I don’t know if I’ve ever seen it, but…
TM: Yeah.
RS: Or if he had, it would basically be a little wire going around the rubber isolation boot. Well, technically it’s not made out of rubber. I don’t know what it’s made out of, what is that, vinyl?
TM: I don’t know. Yeah. I don’t know.
RS: It’s black stuff. And it looks like it could be rubber and it’s this boot, it’s a vibration and noise isolation thing that you have above your furnace so the duct work as the furnace vibrates, it doesn’t vibrate the rest of the duct work in your house. And you’re saying you should have a jumper that goes over that. I’ve never seen such a jumper in my life.
TM: Neither. Yeah.
RS: I mean, I’ve never even seen one in books. Surely there is such a thing, but I don’t know what it looks like. And so Mike is telling me, yeah, it should technically be there. So I had a home inspector reach out after listening to the podcast and he had a, you know, we exchanged emails about a couple different things and one of the questions he had, he said, now that you know about this, are you going to start reporting on it and start recommending correction?
TM: It’s a valid question. Great question.
RS: It’s a great question. And, you know, this is a tough one, Tess, ’cause…
TM: Yeah.
RS: I’d say 20 years ago I would have said, yes, absolutely. This is important. One of the inspectors on my team got shocked because of it. And it could be a life safety issue. And we’re definitely gonna report on this and have people fix it.
TM: Now fast forward after years of wisdom and experience, would your answer be the same?
RS: All right, let me take a pause and tell a story.
TM: Okay.
RS: And my story will answer the question. Back in the day when I used to spend a lot of time on home inspector forums, I remember we had this long chat for a week or two on this one forum about having current on the water distribution piping. Water distribution piping should not carry any current. Now, the electric system is going to be bonded to the water distribution piping. We talked to Mike Casey about that.
TM: We’ve got metal piping, which we have a lot of here. Galvanized or copper or something like that. Yep.
RS: Yep. And it’s supposed to be bonded. You got this big thick copper wire that connects to the piping, but there should never be any current on it. And I learned about some home inspectors in different parts of the country who would use their clamp meter. This is an electrical meter where it’s got this clamping device, and you can put it around a conductor to figure out how many amps are going through that conductor. And we’ll use that when we’re doing an infrared inspection on an electric panel. If we see a hot wire and we’re like, wait, is that too hot? We’ll take this clamp meter and we’ll put it around the wire and figure out how many amps are actually going through it. Is it just a little warm or is it exceeding what it should have on there? It’s always a good idea to follow up. If you’re using an infrared camera on a panel, you should have a clamp meter to figure this out. And so I had one and I heard that a lot of home inspectors would actually put this clamp meter on the water piping just to make sure there’s no current, no amperage…
TM: Sure.
RS: Detected on the water piping. And they were saying anytime you got that, it’s a problem. So I started doing it and every inspection I’d put my clamp meter on the water piping and test. I don’t think I ever found a single water pipe that didn’t have amperage on it. I would always find one to two amps going through that water piping. And so I’d write it up. Every inspection, I’d write it up.
TM: What would you say?
RS: I said there’s voltage or amperage detected on the water piping. This is not normal and indicates a problem, and it should be further inspected and repaired by an electrician.
TM: I was hoping you’d tell me how to fix it. [chuckle]
RS: Yeah, I don’t know how to fix it.
[laughter]
TM: Fair enough.
RS: And as it turns, neither do electricians.
[laughter]
TM: That’s good. That’s good. Rich. [laughter] How many complaints and calls back did you get? [laughter]
RS: Just about every one. It was a really rough week for me, Tess.
[laughter]
TM: Aww, you were only trying to do the right thing, Reuben. God bless you.
RS: I’m only trying to do the right thing. But then maybe half a dozen electricians ended up going out to houses going, I don’t know what this guy’s talking about. I don’t know where he went to school, but, I don’t know what I’m supposed to do about this. There’s not a problem. Everything tests fine.
TM: Huh.
RS: And I’m causing problems that nobody knows how to fix. So at some point I just said, all right, I’m never putting this device on a water pipe again. I’m causing problems that maybe just don’t even exist. It seems, I mean, if every house has this, then what’s the problem? And I quit doing it. And I’ve had a number of things like that where I start reporting something, I think it’s a good idea. I think this is a problem. I say, hey, this should be fixed, nobody knows how to fix it, nobody knows what I’m talking about. And I just look like the most nit-picky person who’s inventing stuff. And then real estate agents would accuse me of adding stuff into my report to try to create value when there is no value, and I’m a pain in the ass to work with and I’m gonna call this guy instead.
TM: Yeah.
RS: ‘Cause he doesn’t cause these imaginary problems.
TM: Oh gosh. And I guess there’s probably increased anxiety on the homeowner’s side of things too. They’ve got one more thing that they’re worried about and they’re like, how do I fix this? And they can’t find anyone to fix it. So their anxiety levels just increase too.
RS: Yes. Yes. Exactly. And so what it comes down to for this particular issue is I’ve never seen it done. I don’t know what it looks like. I am not a hundred percent convinced that it’s required. If it is, great, but I don’t know anyone who’s gonna fix it. And so the answer is a solid no, I’m not gonna start reporting on this. I think it’s probably a wise thing to have done, but no, no, we’re not reporting on it, because in the end, and we talked about this briefly on our phone call, I think about the amount of good that we can do as home inspectors, diligent home inspectors. Finding important stuff. We want to deliver the most value we possibly can to our clients. We wanna report on important stuff. We want stuff to get fixed. We want the house to be safe. And we do that by doing awesome home inspections. But at some point you get too much and people aren’t gonna wanna work with you. And when you’re not working with anybody, you’re not doing any good. You can’t help people. And you have to strike a balance with exactly what you report on. You gotta figure out what that sweet spot is of delivering the right amount of value, the right amount of information. And here’s another story I’ll tell, Tess.
TM: Yeah.
RS: There was a, well, when you attach a deck to a house, if you have brick veneer on the outside of the house, you can’t attach the deck directly to brick veneer, because brick veneer, and Tessa, you understand this, but for our listeners, brick veneer is gonna be basically a freestanding structure that’s just kind of clipped into the side of the house. And there’s gonna be a space between the brick veneer and the sheathing. You’ll have a gap between those two, maybe, I don’t know, half inch, one inch gap, something like that. They’re not gonna be touching. Now, if you take a deck and you wanna secure it to that brick veneer, well, you start tightening your lag bolts. If you get them tight enough, you’re gonna start sucking that brick right into the side of the house. So you can’t make it too tight. And if you don’t make it too tight, the deck ain’t properly attached. And for that reason, the building code, it wasn’t always clearly spelled out in the code, it was just kind of assumed that people should know not to do this. But now it’s actually in the code. It says you cannot attach a deck directly to brick veneer or to any type of veneer like that.
TM: Masonry or… Yeah.
RS: Yeah. You need to make the deck freestanding. Or there’s even this special device made by Simpson Strong-Tie, and I think we’ve talked about it on the podcast. I have one sitting on my desk here. Simpson sent me one. It’s a special device that, it basically lets you attach a deck to a house through the brick veneer. And I’m not gonna try to explain it on the podcast ’cause it’s darn confusing. I will put a link to my blog post about it in this podcast, in the podcast notes. But there is a product to fix it. So, okay, back to my story. I inspect the house, say, “Hey, deck ain’t properly attached. It’s going through brick veneer, fix it. Here’s a couple ways to fix it.” I got all kinds of kickback because, well, they built it and they got inspected by the city and what’s the problem?
RS: And I ended up, I wasn’t even the inspector, I don’t think, but as the owner, the agent was pissed at me and he is like, why are you guys making problems that don’t exist? I said, look, this really is a problem. You can’t do this. And I dug my heels in, and I remember the agent saying, “Reuben, at some point you gotta just stop being the smartest person in the room. This isn’t helping anybody.” And this was not a compliment. He wasn’t calling me smart. I just…
[laughter]
RS: I wanna make this clear. It’s not like he actually thought I was smart. He’s saying, you’re coming up with stuff and nobody knows what the heck you’re talking about. And we don’t like it. And I haven’t heard from him since. We used to do a lot of business together. He would use us for all their transactions. He is a big hitter, but never heard from him again after that conversation. I’ll see him at places now and then, and we’re friendly, we’re nice, but he sure don’t call us anymore. And I’m still digging my heels in on that one. We’re still gonna report that every time. I think it’s an important thing. It needs to be fixed, but boy, you gotta choose your battles.
TM: My gosh. Yeah.
RS: And you gotta get people solutions for stuff. And if I don’t have a clear solution and the next trade person coming in isn’t gonna know how to fix it, it ain’t going in the report.
TM: Yeah. It is such a challenge. I think, I’m sure a lot of the listeners probably have their own stories about situations like that. And it is not black or white on what you report on and how you report on it. I feel like it’s a sliding scale. It can even vary from house to house on what you decide to report on as an inspector and what you don’t. For instance, a hundred-year-old house versus a new construction house, you’re gonna be looking at it with kind of different criteria, different lens on what you’re gonna report on, what you’re not.
RS: Totally.
TM: And so I think part of being a good home inspector is being discerning to look at the house from that 10,000-foot view and to understand your client and your homeowner and to understand what really matters and what doesn’t. And to use your own discernment to figure out what to put in that report and what to comment on.
RS: Yeah. And putting it in context. I mean, is this normal?
TM: Yes.
RS: Okay, it’s a 100-year-old house and you don’t have tempered glass here. Is this normal? Yeah, they didn’t have tempered glass. It’s totally normal. Is there something you could do to make it a little safer short of replacing it? Yeah, you could put a film on there. Not that big of a deal.
TM: Yeah.
RS: Are you gonna do it? You know, look, none of your neighbors have it either. You gotta decide how important this is to you. I’m not gonna say this is some life and death issue, but there is an increased risk and maybe you wanna do something to make it a little safer.
TM: Yeah.
RS: I’m not coming in and say, hey, this was done wrong. If I’m doing a new construction house and you’re supposed to have tempered glass here and they don’t have it, I’m gonna say, this was done wrong. And I recommend you fix it. I would totally have a different lens for it.
TM: You know, and I think even sharing your wisdom, Reuben, on a platform like this, and, you know, if you’re a home inspector out there, just talking with other people in the business and going to conferences and being a part of discussions online is super helpful for our whole industry. Because I can remember back when I started inspecting and I was learning all these things to look for and these defects and these technicalities, and I didn’t wanna miss anything. I didn’t wanna get anything wrong. And I was like recording and reporting on every single thing I saw and there was a certain pride in that. It’s like, well, see, I didn’t miss this. And your report is like a hundred pages long. And now I look back at that and especially kind of doing my own consulting now, I look through different home inspection reports from different inspectors all over the metro area and review their reports on these clients’ homes, and I can get a report that’s 120 pages and there’s maybe three pages of information that actually matter. And a lot of that report is just, I think people reporting on things to sound smart or to say, here, I saw this, or here’s this. And it’s like, okay, does that really matter? And you’re giving this document to someone who has no clue. And the stuff that does matter, that is important is completely lost in the noise of everything else.
RS: Totally. Yeah.
TM: And I think the more I inspected, the more comfortable I got with things and the more experience and context I had, the shorter my reports got, ’cause you’re able to, as you said over the years too, of figuring out what to put in and what not to put in, you learn that over time and through training and keeping an open mind and talking to other people as well. So I think it’s a tough, it’s not necessarily like, here’s what we report on and everyone else should report on that too, it’s like you have to kind of figure that out for your own company, for your own geography, your own houses, construction and your client, what you’re gonna say and what you’re not gonna say. And keeping in mind, again, like what really matters and trying to communicate that as clearly as you can to people.
RS: Yes. Yes. And… Well, what was your learning curve like first getting into home inspections, knowing all that you know about energy and insulation and building performance? I mean, I remember you had to dial it way back.
TM: It’s interesting you bring that up too. Yeah, that’s another good example coming from the energy efficiency world, I would look at the house through that lens and I would see all the potential issues and hurdles and potential improvements you can do. And again, you’re there for a home inspection, that’s one tiny piece of the house. There’s a lot of other systems.
RS: Yep.
TM: And I learned pretty quickly that I don’t wanna spend 50% of my time talking to someone about how they could improve the thermal envelope in their attic when they have a furnace that’s on its last legs and windows that don’t operate and electrical issues. It’s like, okay, again, let’s put it in context. This is something that could be better. They could have air sealing done, they could have more installation added. We’ll put that in the report, but it probably deserves 5% of my time talking about it, not 50%. Right?
RS: Yeah. And ’cause, let’s be honest, 5% of the people are even gonna deal with it.
TM: Exactly. Right. Right.
RS: Yeah.
TM: That they’ve got the budget or they care, right?
RS: Yeah.
TM: Usually people don’t do anything and they don’t put money into these areas of their houses that they don’t see and that people don’t care about unless it’s causing them pain. Let’s be honest.
RS: Yeah.
TM: So I think that was definitely something that I learned pretty quickly by shadowing all the other inspectors on the team and even just talking to the clients I was working with as well.
RS: Yep. Yep. That’s good.
TM: Yeah.
RS: So to summarize, listen to client concerns, be sure to address client concerns, make a big deal out of big stuff, little deal out of little stuff. And if you don’t know who can fix it or how to fix it, figure that out before you start reporting on it. That’s my advice. Don’t create a problem and you don’t have any type of solution for it.
TM: And also in your report, it’s helpful to say how to fix something. I mean, you don’t have to be… Let me correct myself. You don’t have to spell out exactly how to fix it, but point the client in the right direction of who can fix it and let that expert figure it out. But in your report, don’t just leave the client hanging saying, this is a problem. At Structure Tech, you’re writing in your reports, this is a problem. This is why it’s a problem, and here’s what you should do about it. Contact this trade or this type of person to fix it. And there’s a lot of inspectors out there that don’t do that. And again, it’s just, I think you have to help your clients resolve these issues that you’re bringing up. I mean, you don’t have to, but I think that’s good practice.
RS: Yep. Yep. Well, good discussion. We touched on all the points I was hoping we could get to today, Tess.
TM: It’s gonna be a shorter podcast today [laughter]
RS: Well, we’re at 35 minutes.
[laughter]
RS: Tess, real quick.
TM: Yeah.
RS: The shirt you’re wearing reminds me, I need to give a shout out to our sponsors and you’re representing well today, Tess. What’s the shirt you got?
TM: I’m wearing my IEB t-shirt today.
RS: Love it. IEB, Inspector Empire Builder, sponsors of the show, awesome folks. I’m a member of IEB, Structure Tech is a member of IEB. They provide, I still don’t know how to say it succinctly. It’s…
TM: Go check ’em out. [laughter]
RS: Go check them out. Yeah. It’s kind of coaching. And it’s kind of a peer-to-peer group for home inspectors, whether it’s a single person operation or a large team. It’s a lot of collaboration, a lot of learning on how to better run your home inspection business.
TM: I think it’s a resource too, as we’re talking today about these issues that you’ve had to experience and sort through and learn from as an owner, if you’re out there and you’re just getting started inspecting on your own, or you don’t have a team of people to learn from around you, it’s another opportunity or resource where you can tap into other people who have a lot of wisdom to learn from them.
RS: Yep. Yep. You can get in the room with a lot of smart people.
TM: Yeah.
[music]
RS: Cool. Well, Tess, as always, great to see you.
TM: Good to see you too.
RS: And, I don’t know who our next guest is, but whoever it is, it’ll be great. Or maybe it’ll just be the two of us. [chuckle] I haven’t looked at the calendar yet. But for our listeners, if you’ve got any questions, thoughts, whatever, please reach out to us podcast@structuretech.com. We’d love to hear from you, and we’ll catch you next time. Take care.