To watch a video version of this podcast, click here: https://youtu.be/acuCH3qjeEc
In this episode of the Structure Talk podcast, Reuben Saltzman joined by co-host Eric Houseman, talks with Jamie Smith, Deputy Chief of the St. Paul Fire Department, and AJ Neis, St. Paul’s Fire Code Official, about residential fire safety, smoke and carbon monoxide alarm requirements, and common household fire hazards. They discuss the growing risks associated with lithium-ion batteries, practical charging precautions, and seasonal fire prevention tips involving space heaters, holiday decorations, and cooking. The conversation also highlights why homeowners and inspectors should understand the intent behind fire codes and consider safety improvements beyond minimum requirements.
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Takeaways
Smoke alarms are not required in garages under the guidance discussed for St. Paul, but interconnected heat alarms can provide an additional layer of protection.
Fire code requirements and interpretations can vary by jurisdiction. Always confirm requirements with the local authority having jurisdiction.
Test alarms regularly, replace batteries as needed, and replace expired units. Hardwired alarms also need functioning battery backups.
Carbon monoxide alarms are generally placed within 10 feet of sleeping rooms under the requirements discussed. The 10-foot distance is a minimum placement standard, not a protective bubble.
Use undamaged, approved chargers; charge devices on hard surfaces; keep them away from combustible materials; monitor charging; and unplug them when fully charged.
Stop using batteries that are swollen, damaged, or otherwise showing signs of deterioration.
Keep space heaters at least three feet from combustible materials, plug them directly into wall outlets, and use models with automatic shutoff and appropriate safety listings.
Replace frayed, chewed, or damaged cords. Never ignore repeatedly tripping breakers or replace a breaker with one rated above the circuit’s capacity.
Avoid leaving cooking unattended. Remember the fire safety reminder: “When you cook, stay and look.”
Home inspectors can strengthen their reports by explaining why a condition matters and recommending practical improvements that provide additional protection.
Chapters
00:00 – Introduction and Guest Welcome
04:37 – Meet Jamie Smith and AJ Neis: Fire Service Roles and Experience
09:45 – Are Smoke Alarms Required in Garages?
14:10 – Heat Alarms and Choosing Smoke Alarm Types
19:03 – Hardwired Smoke Alarms and St. Paul Requirements
23:57 – Garage Fires and the Growing Risk of Lithium-Ion Batteries
27:41 – Safe Battery Charging Practices
33:44 – Why You Shouldn’t Charge Devices in Bed or Leave Them Plugged In
36:33 – Carbon Monoxide Alarm Placement: Understanding the 10-Foot Rule
42:19 – Code Minimums vs. Additional Home Safety Measures
44:34 – What Home Inspectors Should Communicate About Fire Safety
47:12 – Seasonal Fire Risks: Space Heaters, Electrical Safety, and Holiday Decorations
50:38 – Space Heater Precautions, Electrical Warning Signs, and Christmas Trees
52:51 – Cooking Fires and the “Stay and Look” Reminder
53:28 – Heating Pads, Damaged Cords, and Electrical Device Safety
57:20 – Final Thoughts and Wrap-Up
TRANSCRIPTION
The following is an AI-generated transcription from an audio recording. Although the transcription is mostly accurate, it will contain some errors due to inaudible passages or transcription errors.
Reuben Saltzman: Welcome to my house. Welcome to the Structure Talk podcast, a production of Structure Tech Home Inspections. My name is Reuben Saltzman. I’m your host alongside building science geek, Tessa Murry. We help home inspectors up their game through education, and we help homeowners to be better stewards of their houses. We’ve been keeping it real on this podcast since 2019, and we are also the number one home inspection podcast in the world, according to my mom.
Reuben Saltzman (00:01.428)
Welcome back to the show. I’m super excited today. I’ve got two guests on that I’ve been working on for some time now. But before I introduce my guests, I want to give a quick shout out to our show sponsors, IEB, Inspector Empire Builder. I’ve talked about them before. They do training for home inspectors. And today I just want to mention they’ve got a podcast too. A couple of the more recent topics they’ve got on their podcast. Number one, can AI
AI can write your home inspection report, but should it? Another one got a guy saying he was bald for 20 years. Here’s why, but he has hair now. And the hidden revenue opportunity after every home inspection. If you want to find their podcast, simply look for Inspector Empire Builder and you can find it anywhere you find your favorite podcasts. Of course, you get them on the Apple platform and several others.
All right. So today I have Jamie Smith. He is the deputy chief with the city of Saint Paul. And I’ve got AJ Niece, who is the fire code official for the city of Saint Paul. Thank you both so much for coming on. I’m excited to have you guys here. How you doing today?
Jamie Smith (01:20.079)
We’re doing great. We’re doing great. and thank you for the opportunity and thanks for having us.
Reuben Saltzman (01:24.504)
Yeah, absolutely. And just just to share a little bit about this, I had I think I told you earlier I had reached out to a few different fire departments, and I I won’t name any names, but all I hit was stone walls, and I was referred to this person, this person, this person, this person. I I was bounced to five different people at one particular city before hitting a complete dead end with no response. And
I reached out to Jamie one time. He said, Yeah, I’m sure we can help you with that. And he said, you know, there’s some other questions that might be better referred to AJ. And he got AJ on the on the show with us too. So just can’t thank you guys enough for coming on. I I’ve got a bunch of stuff I want to get into with you guys, but first I want to learn a little bit more about you. Jamie, let’s start with you. What what exactly do you do at the city of St. Paul?
And what did your career path look like? How did you get into this?
A.J. Neis (02:26.738)
Yeah, absolutely. again, thanks for for having me on, you know, I can speak to Saint Paul and you know just our willingness and excitement to stare some of our safety anytime. Can you hear me okay?
Jamie Smith (02:27.375)
Yeah, absolutely. again, thanks for for having me on. You know, I can speak to Saint Paul and you know, just our willingness and excitement to share fire safety anytime that we can. Can you hear me okay?
Reuben Saltzman (02:42.131)
we’re getting we’re getting some wicked feedback. I don’t suppose you have any headphones you could put on, do ya?
Jamie Smith (02:48.649)
you know, I can try to get them to connect. I I wasn’t able to get them to connect earlier, but let me see if I could work on that. Yeah. AJ we’ve all had to go up a lot work.
A.J. Neis (02:49.416)
You know, I can try to get them connect. I I able to get them connect earlier, but let me see if I can work on that. Yeah. A J maybe I have to go a while working on something else.
Reuben Saltzman (03:00.896)
Yeah, you’ve got We’ve got Echo cancellation turned on for you. I don’t know what else we could do. Are you guys in the same room?
Jamie Smith (03:07.499)
Uh-huh. And it’s still
We are.
Reuben Saltzman (03:13.346)
That’s why. let’s you you should have a mute button down at the bottom of your screen. If you’re not talking, keep yourself muted. That will eliminate that echo.
Jamie Smith (03:27.567)
Okay. About now.
Reuben Saltzman (03:30.83)
AJ is not muted. AJ can I can hear you. can you find that mute button?
A.J. Neis (03:35.496)
Can you hear me? Okay.
A.J. Neis (03:58.654)
What about now?
Reuben Saltzman (03:58.787)
It should be at the bottom of your screen. It’s it’s gonna be it’s gonna say it’s gonna say audio and it has a little picture of a microphone.
Jamie Smith (04:06.991)
Yep, I’m I’ve got it.
Reuben Saltzman (04:08.814)
there you found it. Okay. All right. And Jamie, do you see where it is? All right, cool. so we’re just gonna just I’ll I’ll do a little bit of editing in post here and just start from the top. I just ask you what your history is with the city of St. Paul. Like how’d you get into this? And then what you do day to day. Let’s just take that answer from the top.
Jamie Smith (04:10.895)
Okay.
I do, yeah, I see it now.
Jamie Smith (04:37.195)
Absolutely. well, once again, thanks for for having me here. you know, I can certainly speak for myself and the city of St. Paul that anytime we have an opportunity to speak and spread the word of fire prevention, fire safety, we are happy to do so. So thank you to your platform and having us on and to all of your your listeners tuning in. Our our job here and our goal.
is save lives, pets, and property. And hopefully we can spread some information to do so today. for myself, you know, I am currently one of the deputy chiefs for the St. Paul Fire Department. in this role, I serve as the public information officer, PIO. So what that means is I’m the communications director for the department. I handle internal and external communications.
And I also serve as the community relations chief. So community events and different things of that nature. I also oversee fire education and fire investigations as well for the fire department. I’ve been in the department for 13, going on 14 years now. Started as a firefighter, worked my way up to captain and then was promoted or appointed to this position about two and a half years ago.
why St. Paul? Well, I have a deep and long history with St. Paul and the fire department. My father and uncle were both St. Paul firefighters, beginning in the early to mid-1970s. I grew up in St. Paul. my grandfather had businesses and property in the old Rondo neighborhood of St. Paul. That is the that’s a neighborhood that was
Taken out to buy the the the construction of highway ninety-four. my mother was a nine one one operator for St. Paul for a number of years. another uncle who’s a Ramsey County coroner for 20 years, and and and on and on and on. So I say all that to say, you know, St. Paul is home. St. Paul is is where my family’s roots are. and this is, you know, much more than a job. It is me giving back and serving.
Reuben Saltzman (06:33.048)
Yeah.
Jamie Smith (06:58.125)
The community that has given myself and my family so much.
Reuben Saltzman (07:01.752)
Man, that sounds like you eat, sleep, and breathe fire safety. This is this is in your bloodline. This is amazing.
Jamie Smith (07:07.927)
It it it actually is. It actually is. It is it actually is a family visitor for me. So I’m I’m happy to be here. I’m happy to have this opportunity to serve the the residents, the businesses and visit visitors of St. Paul in this right.
Reuben Saltzman (07:10.999)
Okay.
Reuben Saltzman (07:21.12)
Love it. Thank you. All right. And you you suggested I get AJ on the show. AJ, if you wouldn’t mind, if you could kind of answer the same question, what what exactly do you do day to day at the city of Saint Paul and what what got you into this?
A.J. Neis (07:38.921)
Yeah, hi, thanks, for having me. I don’t have as long a history as Chief Smith when it comes to Saint Paul, but I started my fire service career about twenty-six years ago. I started with the Roseville Fire Department as a paid on call volunteer firefighter. got hired in with St. Paul about twenty one years ago as a fire inspector. worked my way up to the ranks to finally become the fire court official for the city, which I’ve been for the last four years.
don’t have the the rich family ties that Chief Smith has, but I did go to high school here. Saint Paul’s been kind of my adopted home. it’s always been very welcoming to me. they’ve always treated me well and I just want to give back to our community. And as Chief Smith said, you know, taking care of our businesses, our residents and our visitors are are very important to me.
Reuben Saltzman (08:30.274)
Love it. Love it. And and what exactly do you do as the fire code official? What does what does your job look like day to day?
A.J. Neis (08:38.896)
Yeah, so I oversee the daily operations of all the fire inspections and code enforcement activities for the city when it comes to all things fire safety. So I manage and oversee the what’s we call it the fire certificate of occupancy program. So as we like to say, we’re in the occupancy business. and we we govern our our ourselves by the five E’s of fire prevention, which is education, engineering, enforcement, economic incentive, and emergency response. But
When I use that enforcement term, I also like to say we educate before we regulate.
Reuben Saltzman (09:12.236)
Okay, okay, excellent, excellent. Thank you. So I’ll I’ll throw it out there. What what kind of started all this was a listener question asking about smoke alarms in garages. He was asking, is there a requirement today to have a smoke alarm in a garage? And that that made me start thinking about a lot of stuff going on in garages. Let’s just let’s just start with that one.
Are there any requirements for smoke alarms in garages today?
Jamie Smith (09:45.184)
Sure. you know, I I’ll I’ll I’ll go ahead and frame that up and then I’ll let AJ you know give the details behind that. but I did want to just start with just a just a little bit of setting its own as to, you know, what we can and cannot give as far as an opinion or fact and kind of how this whole thing works as far as fire codes and and and and what we look for as far as you know fire prevention experts and fire code experts. you know, when we address code, we’re speaking
On how we understand and apply those codes and requirements in St. Paul, right? the reason being is the the code interpretation is really up to the authority having jurisdiction, meaning your local jurisdiction, right? So here the jurisdiction is St. Paul’s. So if you have an inspection in St. Paul, the way that the code is applied here is up to how the code is interpreted here by the code official, which happens to be this gentleman here next to me.
on screen here that could be different and will be different in different jurisdictions. So Minneapolis has, you know, their code official who may and can interpret the code differently. So they have different requirements. there are some that are universal. it can get a little tricky. There are some that are universal. there are some that are not universal and up to interpretation. Okay. So when we talk
you know, we we will be kind of specific, very specific on differentiating those those those two things. We don’t want to say, hey, this is allowed in St. Paul and have it not be clear and somebody thinks that that same thing may be allowed in, you know, Roseville. Okay, does that make sense? the second thing is we we understand that you have a a broad range of of listeners to your podcast, and congratulations on that.
Reuben Saltzman (11:18.936)
Good.
Reuben Saltzman (11:29.356)
Okay, okay.
Jamie Smith (11:40.728)
So to do that and to help us reach and get this information out to the the the most divide the the widest audience that we can, we may use some technical and common terms interchangeably. The purpose of that is is we want to make sure that it’s understood, right? That the that the information is understood. Not that folks can’t interpret it, but we don’t want to come off and use extremely t technical insider terms that only insiders really would know.
our goal here is to make sure that we educate the the the widest and the most amount of people. so in order to do so, we might use common terms instead of technical terms. but as far as answering your question, as far as the garage codes, and or the the fire alarms in the garages, I’ll I’ll kick that over to AJ.
Reuben Saltzman (12:20.696)
Sounds great.
A.J. Neis (12:31.678)
Are smoke alarms allowed in garages? they
Reuben Saltzman (12:35.852)
Well not not allowed, but but required. Let’s say required.
A.J. Neis (12:39.088)
Yes. Are they required in garages? They are not required in garages. There is no smoke alarm requirement for garages. And there is for good reason. typically our our smoke alarms that we see in our inside our homes, they’re designed to be in controlled climate areas where you’re not subject to extreme hot, extreme cold, lots of dust, things like that, which would subject them to false alarms and things like that. So smoke alarms are intended to be in
Typically conditioned spaces like your living room, your hallways, your bedrooms, places like that. in the garage, subject to dust, you know, you could also get spiders and and things like that that could crawl in, create false alarms within the house. So smoke alarms are not required in garages. Now, with that said, they do have options to install what’s called a heat alarm, which they can be interconnected into your smoke alarm system. There’s nothing in the code that
That requires these at this time. But that is something if you want to add an extra layer of safety for your family. You could install a heat alarm, which they can be connected to your home’s smoke alarm system. And they have systems that are available to be connected via like Bluetooth. So if you don’t want to necessarily run wires and you want to put in interconnected, they could run wirelessly, or they could also be interconnected through your buildings electrical system.
Reuben Saltzman (14:02.592)
Okay. All right. That’s very helpful. And and is this something that somebody could go to Home Depot and buy off the shelf?
A.J. Neis (14:10.682)
Yes, they are available. Home Depot, Lowells, Menards, any of your local hardware stores, Ace, even online, the one thing I do recommend is always look for a product that is listed and approved for use versus something that they might find that might be an off-brand that might not be as safe or or been tested by a underwriting lab or somebody like
Reuben Saltzman (14:38.402)
Okay, all right, excellent. And you know, on that topic makes me think about different types of smoke alarms. We’ve talked about this a lot on this podcast about the difference between ionization and photoelectric smoke alarms. Do you guys have any official stance on that at the city of St. Paul?
Jamie Smith (15:02.575)
You know, I can I can start that off, but I did want to just call one thing out. I think AJ mentioned at the beginning, I’m not sure if we if if we were rolling or not, but there there is an active fire going on. So we’re just kind of both monitoring that situation. so not being rude or anything to that nature, but it’s a little misleading. AJ and I are both in an office, and we do have an office. However, our roles require us to be available available and respond 24 hours, three hundred and sixty-five days a year.
so it’s either us or somebody from our team. so it was a pretty pretty good good fire. that was that was going literally right before we we logged in. it sounded like they were getting things under control, so we we we felt that we did not have to to to reschedule this meeting, but that’s we’re just kind of monitoring that that situation there. But okay, all right. Just wanted just wanted to make that if see us kind of glancing over here, that’s that’s that’s what it’s for.
Reuben Saltzman (15:43.205)
my.
Reuben Saltzman (15:53.005)
I get it.
Jamie Smith (16:00.385)
but as as far as a different type of smoke alarms, AJ, I can let you go ahead and dive into the specifics of it and I can I can come in at the end.
A.J. Neis (16:13.234)
Yeah, so there’s two different types of smoke alarms. typically we have photoelectric and ionization. The ionization smoke alarms, those are your most common your most cheapest. They’re also the most sensitive. so those smoke alarms are what’s readily available. That’s typically what’s installed in your homes by your your common builders or your contractors. Again, they are they are the most effective, they’re the most sensitive, so they are oftentimes more subject to
I don’t want to call them false alarms because they they worked as intended. So if you’re cooking and your smoke alarm goes off, that means your smoke alarm worked. that doesn’t mean you have to change your recipe, but you know, lets you know to keep an eye on things. your photoelectric detectors, those are more common for like larger products of combustion, your larger smoke particles. They’re the least sensitive. those usually detect things like a smoldering fire and things like that. So
Those detectors are less sensitive, which is good. those typically a good spot for those are say if you have like a real smaller apartment unit and you’ve got where like you’ve got the island or the galley kitchen right next to the bedroom, which is right next to the bathroom, and you open up the door and there’s a lot of steam and stuff from a shower. Those four electric detectors a lot oftentimes are a little bit better because they’re not gonna frequently go up every time you open the door after.
nice hot shower or you’re right next to a kitchen. But a combination of both are always recommended and use what’s best for your home and basically how it sells.
Jamie Smith (17:54.734)
Yeah, and I and I’ll just add to that, you know, technology certainly matters and that is a a good question. but you know, really what we want is we want to make sure that it works and that you have enough and they are properly placed. so you making sure that they’re tested regularly, making sure that the batteries are are tested regularly and replaced, making sure that you know they’re they’re not expired and if they are they’re being replaced. and making sure you know what to do when they do a lot.
Reuben Saltzman (18:24.172)
Okay, thank you. And while we’re on the specifics of smoke alarm requirements, I gotta ask you about the hardwired smoke alarm requirement. Now I know in the city of St. Paul, it feels like forever, maybe the last 50 years or so, something like that. I think you guys have required one at le th this is for all existing homes, no matter what, you guys have existed required one hardwired smoke alarm.
And I think it’s supposed to be installed near the sleeping areas. Can you comment on exactly what that requirement is?
Jamie Smith (19:03.225)
So the the the hardwired smoke alarms are the ones that just just to set the stage are the ones that are connected directly to a power source in the home. they typically are they most certainly have a battery backup. So a lot of the sometimes folks think that just because it’s hardwired that you don’t have to check the batteries, right? and that is not the case. Even if you have a hardwired smoke alarm, there’s still a battery backup on there.
And it still needs to be tested and those batteries need to be replaced in the event that the power source is interrupted for some reason. but as far as the code requirement, I’ll I’ll pass that over to AJ.
A.J. Neis (19:47.741)
Reuben, you couldn’t tee it off better to let the fire code official use the fire code official’s two favorite words and that’s it depends. Right? question, it’s not because we don’t have our you know, we’re trying to buy time or trying to find the right answer. Because so in so many circumstances with codes, as you know as a home inspector, it depends. there’s so many wall off invariances and requirements based on
Reuben Saltzman (20:00.078)
Love it.
A.J. Neis (20:17.096)
things are set up. the Minnesota State Fire Code is very nuanced when it comes to and I’ll just talk about that for a second before I get into St. Paul exclusively. The Minnesota State Fire Code basically says if you have a certain level of protection, you can’t go backwards. So if your home was built at a certain time or age and it already has existing hardwired smoke alarms, you can’t go backwards and install battery operated smoke alarms. You have to replace them for a life-for-life device.
you can only increase the level of safety, you can’t decrease it. Or for example, if if a homeowner pulls a permit and they’re required to put battery operated smoke alarms inside their bedrooms, based as a condition of that permit, now they have to forever maintain those smoke alarms inside those bedrooms. in regards to St. Paul, yes, Saint Paul has a city ordinance, it’s called chapter thirty-eight of our legislative code that does require
Reuben Saltzman (20:47.16)
Okay.
A.J. Neis (21:16.352)
One hardwired smoke alarm to be installed and it’s enforced at the time of sale or the tish inspection. So the truth in sale and housing. So if that is found on a tish inspection, it is required that the homeowner or that the the buyer or seller within a year gets that smoke alarm installed as a requirement of that sale. And yes, the ordinance does say it has to be near or next.
To the sleeping rooms. However, there is also a provision in the ordinance that talks about financial burden in cost. So sometimes you might see that smoke alarm in a location that’s not directly next to the bedroom. I think in the case you posed to us, like it was in the basement, you know, there’s a lot of what if or it depends. Was there a and I’m not asking you to answer this question, but you know, keep things to consider like was there a bedroom?
in that basement because if there was, they would be meeting that requirement because it doesn’t say primary bedrooms or things like
A.J. Neis (22:19.346)
Yeah, it just to kind of bring that full circle, you know, when we’re talking about physical
Jamie Smith (22:19.907)
Yeah, and and just to kind of bring that full circle, you know, when we’re talking about, you know, these codes or requirements, the code determination is a best practice and you know, recommendation or requirement, right? but the goal here and really what we’re trying to get at with all these, these are minimum requirements. you know, and there has to be a standard. There has to be a minimum, but they are minimum standards. what we always try to encourage and communicate to to to homeowners or to you know
professionals like yourself is the goal is to not just to win a code or an inspection, but is to make your your home the safest place that you can for you and your family.
Reuben Saltzman (23:02.668)
Okay. Okay. That’s good. So we we started this off with the question about whether you need smoke alarms in garages. And I think where that kind of comes from is because I’ve been hearing about a lot of fires that have been starting in garages. I I’ve I I know either neighbors or I’ve got friends who have had neighbors, probably four different houses that have burned down in the last
Five years or so that I know about specifically where the fire started in the garage because they were charging a lithium-ion battery for a lawnmower or something like that. And something went wrong, it overheated, started a fire in the garage, burned the whole house down. Are you guys seeing more and more of this? I’m just wondering what’s going on right now.
Jamie Smith (23:57.68)
Yes, absolutely. you know, your your your question brings up two points, and both are relevant and valid. both garage fires, we see those and we are getting to the the the time of the year where we traditionally see an uptick in in those type of incidences, meaning all types of fires, but specifically garage fires. but then lithium ion battery fires specifically have been on the rise.
Everybody knows that those type of those type of devices, the devices that carry the batteries are becoming more and more common in all of our homes. you know, I guess y your question was about well let’s just start with let’s start with the let’s start with the batteries, right? Since the start of twenty twenty five, just in St. Paul alone, our investigators have have determined
or suspected, I should say. They have suspected lithium-ion batteries as a cause of about 20 fires just since the the start of 2025. And that’s just in St. Paul. So it’s certainly a growing problem here. And I know if it’s happening here in St. Paul, it’s happening all over. their devices, they they they, you know, they work most of the time. However, when they do fail or malfunction, they do so rapidly.
Reuben Saltzman (25:05.164)
Wow. Wow.
Jamie Smith (25:24.015)
they let out a violent release of both heat and toxic gases and can be extremely dangerous when they do let out. as far as the garages, well do you want to stop there, AJ and you wanna weigh in on on that? Because there is a lot to go through just on the batteries alone.
A.J. Neis (25:46.301)
Yeah, I think nationally they say about sixteen percent or so of fires that start in in residential garages are electrical in nature. Now of course that could be a number of reasons for electrical, from multi wiring to you name it, but you know, as with anything is we’re seeing that growing trend in in in lithium ion products and batteries, that it’s just natural for the the cause of those to go up.
Jamie Smith (25:47.0)
Yeah.
A.J. Neis (26:15.634)
An increase. And there’s lots of things that we can look for and do to make sure and indicators to make sure if a battery, you know, is starting to go bad, for example, if it’s starting to bulge. want to make sure you take some good safety practices like charging your your appliances on hard surfaces, and even not necessarily in garages, but you know, things I I think of my my college-age son, and he he lives and dies by his cell phone.
not charging his cell phone on his bed and actually putting it on a nightstand, things like that. So there are safety things that can be done. and we can get more into that as well. But I a as you said, with with the garage fires and things like that, as we’re seeing more and more of these products become available, it’s only natural we’re gonna see an increase in in these types of fires.
Reuben Saltzman (27:04.152)
Sure. And so you you’re saying to make it safer, put it on a hard surface. Like if you’re charging something in your garage, make sure it’s sitting on the garage floor. And I’ve I’ve heard other tips like maybe make sure that it’s just kind of sitting by itself. So if it does start on fire, it’s not going to start the wall on fire. I’ve even heard people say, maybe this one’s crazy. Tell me what you think. They’re saying remove the battery if you can and put it inside of a grill.
And put the lid on it and charge it there. Have you guys ever heard of anything like this? And what are your thoughts on that?
Jamie Smith (27:41.057)
A AJ, I d don’t know if you’ve heard that. I have not heard that one specifically, no.
Reuben Saltzman (27:45.486)
Okay.
A.J. Neis (27:49.191)
I have not heard of that one. I think I know where the intent is coming from, but on the same took when I hear put it inside of a grill. There’s a whole lot of other concerns that I have with that. but what they’re probably trying to do is, you know, when we when we talk about fire, right? Fire is a a living, breathing thing just like you and I. The three main the three principles of fire is fuel, heat, and oxygen, right? And so that’s just like you and I.
where if they put it inside a grill, I think what they’re talking about is a tight fitting place where they’re not gonna get that oxygen. So if there’s no oxygen, then it’s not going to complete that chemical chain reaction. I don’t want to get too technical into this. It’s gonna make sure that if the fire if it does build heat, it’s gonna starve itself of oxygen right away, therefore it’s not gonna spread to other locations. So we call that comparmentation in the fire service.
Reuben Saltzman (28:44.526)
Okay. All right.
A.J. Neis (28:45.554)
Yeah, and and if and if I were to just to boil it down into just a f
Jamie Smith (28:46.125)
Yeah, and if I were just to boil it down into just a few if I would boil it down just into a few quick fire safety tips, specific to lithium-ion batteries, it’s you know, make sure this is not altered. If it’s damaged or showing damage in any way, discontinue use. make sure that you are charging it on a hard surface. Never charge it in a location that will block your means of egress. Okay, never, never do that.
Reuben Saltzman (29:15.672)
Mm. Yeah. Smart.
Jamie Smith (29:16.483)
and they’re they’re not rated for for outdoor most of them are rated for outdoor charging. So if you leave it outside, you know, that could potentially you know warp the battery or damage the battery in some way, and that can lead to a malfunction. And then the last thing is, and this is a lot of us are are are are guilty of this.
I we could probably look around right now and folks have their device devices plugged in. But and and and AJ came up with a a very good slogan for this. I’m not gonna steal his thunder. I’m gonna I’m gonna let him go go through it. But when you are charging, you have to make sure that you are there and you are watching and present. Meaning don’t put it on the charger and leave it overnight. Don’t put it on the charger and leave it for the weekend. Okay. You have to be around when you charge it.
Okay. AJ, what do you say to that?
A.J. Neis (30:16.188)
thank you, Chief, but no, I I can’t take full credit for that. That was you and I. But one of the things we talk about in the fire service and we we like to use jargon or catchphrases that are catchy so people know things like so we always say when you cook, stay and look. so one of the things that and I’m gonna say Chief Smith and I claimed was be in charge, stay in charge. Meaning when you’re charging your batteries
If they’re once they’re fully charged, unplug them right away. Right. A lot of times people think, I’m gonna plug this in and it’ll be charged and ready to go when I get back. Or they plug something in their garage and they leave their pets at home. Things like that. So now all of a sudden they’ve got an unwanted fire and we don’t as you said, smoke alarms aren’t required in garages and and things like that. And we wanna make sure, as T Smith said right away, make sure your pets are safe. Those are the little things that we don’t necessarily think about. So
Both things are done charging, unplug right away. Keep an eye on them. Don’t go to bed with things plugged in that that you know could potentially overheat and things like that. So Chase Smith, I’m sorry, pal, but I’m gonna say that’s both of us. So be in charge, stay in charge. All right. you got you heard.
Jamie Smith (31:33.515)
you that you heard here first. That is an exclusive I we haven’t checked the copyright on that, but I think that we might have to go and file one.
Reuben Saltzman (31:44.103)
man, I am so guilty of all that. I got I mean, I haven’t talked to you at all yet, Eric. our co host Eric is on the show too here today. Eric, how many devices do you have plugged in charging right now? Just rough estimate.
Eric Houseman (31:59.22)
my computer sitting in front of me. I that’s it. I mean I I’ve very, very, yeah, very conscious effort recently that I would always in my garage have, you know, like everybody uses battery-operated yard equipment now and all of our drills, Ruben. I know you and I have a plethora of power tools between the two of us.
Reuben Saltzman (32:06.07)
Really? You’re good at this? okay.
Reuben Saltzman (32:24.389)
yeah. Yeah.
Eric Houseman (32:25.815)
I no longer leave my Weed Whip Edger battery charging. I plug it in, charge it, use it, and unplug it again because I’ve heard so much stuff about this. and to go back, Ruben, to what you said at the beginning, with you know, the hearing about and you knowing people that have had this happen, we actually just did a home inspection very
Jamie Smith (32:32.803)
Thank you. Thank you.
Reuben Saltzman (32:33.25)
Okay.
Jamie Smith (32:40.953)
Yeah.
Eric Houseman (32:55.173)
Sad story, and I’m not going to, you know, name names, but we actually just did a home inspection for someone last week who had a house fire that basically totaled their house and they were buying a new house because of it. They were moving because of it. So it it does happen far too often. Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (33:09.494)
Hmm. Wow.
Yeah. Yeah.
Jamie Smith (33:16.335)
Yep. Yeah. Eric Eric, that’s outstanding. I definitely have to commend you for your fire safety practices. absolutely. You know what? It starts, it it’s never too late. but the best time the the there’s we say there’s two best times to start practicing fire safety. one was, you know, yesterday, and the second best time is today, right? So if you haven’t already started, let’s get you started today. the other thing that I’ll that I’ll hammer home on this.
Eric Houseman (33:22.701)
I wasn’t always that way.
Reuben Saltzman (33:24.854)
Yeah.
Jamie Smith (33:44.728)
And it’s because it’s very, very common. I have been I I have been guilty of this in the past as well before I was educated on this or properly educated, or may I say even re-educated, is let me ask you, do either of you sleep with your phone plugged in in the bed with you?
Reuben Saltzman (34:06.754)
Not in the bed. Lord knows. No, it’s on the nightstand.
Eric Houseman (34:08.156)
No.
Jamie Smith (34:10.881)
Okay. All right. So that’s the other thing is having it in the bed on a power source overnight. You’re not monitoring it because you’re sleeping. hopefully not scrolling on Instagram unless you’re watching safety videos, fire safety videos, then that that would be okay. that’s okay. yeah, but yeah, under then it’s under a cover, you might be laying on it. Okay. What’s happening to that device? It’s not able to dissipate heat and
Eric Houseman (34:11.069)
Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (34:26.318)
Then it’s okay. Yeah. Well played.
Eric Houseman (34:28.187)
Ha ha ha.
Penny.
Jamie Smith (34:40.579)
That not to get too much in the weeds here about the technical aspects of those batteries. But what happens is is those batteries, the cells in there, there’s a device that that cools and that that prevents it from overcharging or over you know, that that rejects some of the heat that that’s coming in through that charge that charging mechanism. And that can fail. And when that when that mechanism fails, the battery essentially, I’m oversimplifying here, but the battery essentially cannot cool itself.
Reuben Saltzman (35:02.798)
Hm.
Jamie Smith (35:09.943)
It overheats and then all of that heat that is not only being introduced by the power source, but also is within the battery. So the bigger the battery, you know, the more those batteries sells, the larger the eruption of that heat, smoke, and steam that that comes out. So that’s why we don’t want you to have it covered up, you know, in a blanket sleeping with you. we don’t want you to overcharge it because you are just testing, you are straining those.
those safety mechanisms that that reduce the the the heat there. And we don’t want you to just have it you know, plugged in nonstop. That happens so often with those e bikes and those yard tools that, you know, when you’re not using them, they’re they they only take, you know, an hour or two to charge and we leave them on for weeks at a time. What do you think it’s doing to that that that safety mechanism that that’s in place to to to keep us safe and the and to make sure the battery is, you know, not
Reuben Saltzman (35:57.614)
Yes.
Jamie Smith (36:06.569)
running into and we call it thermal runaways when when it actually explodes with with those that heat steam smoke.
Reuben Saltzman (36:15.254)
Okay. Yeah, I I know I’m gonna make a lot of changes myself after listening to all this ’cause I’m guilty of all of this stuff. This is this is good. If if it doesn’t give value to anybody else, you’re giving me a lot of value. So I appreciate this.
Jamie Smith (36:29.037)
If we if we save one, if we save one, that’s that’s that’s the good start. That’s a good start. That’s a goal.
Reuben Saltzman (36:33.58)
Yeah, yeah, this is good. All right. Get getting back to some code requirements. and I don’t know if you guys are gonna have an answer for this one or not, but the the standard code language, it’s in the building code, it’s probably in a bunch of fi I’m not I don’t know the fire codes well. I know the building codes, but they say you need you need the carbon monoxide alarms within ten feet of sleeping rooms. Where did the ten feet come from?
Is this a magic number?
Reuben Saltzman (37:11.18)
Neither one of you guys want to answer this. If if if that if you don’t want to, it’s okay.
Jamie Smith (37:16.105)
yeah, yeah, sure. so where do the ten feet come from? the ten feet is not a magic number, right? This the CO is not gonna stop at the ten foot marker. the ten foot is a placement standard. it’s meant to improve the chances of warning you in this case while you’re sleeping or in your bedroom. So we just want people to understand that the it the the safety purpose behind that is
Reuben Saltzman (37:24.012)
Okay.
Jamie Smith (37:45.119)
There there has to be a minimum, but it’s not necessarily just to measure the distance, it’s to give you a minimum so you do have a warning. But but AJ can speak to the the the sp the specifics of what’s required or not.
A.J. Neis (37:59.635)
Yeah, thanks. I it it’s not an arbitrary number. So the ten feet comes in, it’s a balance, right? Again, we have to measure life safety, practicability, and affordability all all in one, right? Because when we create new codes, new standards, new laws, we know that there’s gonna be a cost involved. So that ten feet, it kinda gives a good balance, right? Because carbon monoxide, it’s an odorless gas that, you know, if you’re sleeping, for example, you’re it’s gonna help you fall asleep more. So
You want to make sure that that’s that that carbon monoxide alarm is within 10 feet of your your sleeping room so you can hear it go off. also you want it far away enough where it’s going to detect that CO gas before it’s too late and it’s already infiltrated your bedroom where you’re sleeping inside of it. furthermore, to kind of expand on that when you talk about the 10-foot, there’s also things in the building and fire code ruben that that talk about the smoke or CO alarms. I apologize that so you still combination alarms.
But your point on that is also if you have a fuel burning appliance inside your bedroom, for example, if you have a master bedroom that might have like a gas fireplace inside there, you are required in addition to out ten feet outside, because you’ve got a fuel burning appliance inside your sleeping room, you’re required to have a CL alarm inside that room as well. So that ten foot rule, that’s a guy for most homes and that’s a good standard because
one ten feet, it’s close enough to the bedroom while you’re sleeping, you’re hopefully going to hear it. But it also buys you a little bit of time before that carbon monoxide travels right into your sleeping space that it’s hopefully going to detect it at that time. But then again, if you have carbon monoxide inside your bedroom from a potential fuel burning appliance, you’re required to have that additional CO alarm in there as well.
Reuben Saltzman (39:50.319)
Okay, now here I’ll give you a very specific one. I used to live in Minneapolis, had a one and a half story house, and there’s a door at the bottom of the stairway. You open that door, you walk up the stairs, and you are in the bedroom. It’s all one big bedroom at the top of the stairway. Where do we need the carbon monoxide alarm?
A.J. Neis (40:13.704)
Within ten feet of that area. So if anywhere within that ten feet of that where that door is, where that landing is, that’s gonna be a good s a good space. is it gonna be reasonable enough for you to be able to hear that smoke seal alarm? I keep saying smoke alarm, I’m sorry. It’s gonna be close enough for you to hear that seal alarm, but also it’s gonna be within enough reach where again carbon monoxide it dissipates evenly throughout the
So it’s giving you and buying you that space. So if it’s within ten feet of that landing where you’re talking about towards the bottom of the stairs, I would find that an as an acceptable location. Whatever is going to be easiest and most convenient and practical, but it’s also going to be within as we like to use the intent of the code.
Jamie Smith (41:02.595)
Yeah. Yeah. And and I’ll just add to that, you know, carbon monoxide is it’s it’s a it’s a a gas that gives no smell and it gives no second chance, right? So if if you’re you know the ten foot is the guideline, but if you’re ever in you know it i it you can go over and above that if you need to and just make sure that it’s in a place where it’s gonna recognize it and that you’re gonna hear it. Because like like AJ mentioned and like I just said,
th there might not be a second chance at at some of these things. So you know, do what you can to protect yourself and the family.
Reuben Saltzman (41:40.566)
Okay. Eric, are you clear on this?
A.J. Neis (41:40.893)
And and j just in follow up to that real quick, you know, when we talk about codes as fire code officials, as fire marshals, the code understand is the minimum standard. And that’s how we can enforce if we’re going out to do an inspection, is is that minimum standard. There’s nothing that prevents a homeowner or a landlord or anybody from want to go up and beyond it. We’re setting the minimum expectation and that’s all we’re doing. So if you if you’re not comfortable and you want to put a second one
stairs and on down by that lower level landing, we would not discourage you from doing so.
Yeah.
Jamie Smith (42:19.895)
10 foot is not a protective bubble. Okay. It’s a minimum recommendation or minimum standard.
Reuben Saltzman (42:22.83)
Okay. Yeah.
Okay. Sure. All right. Well that that’s helpful. Eric, are we clear on that? Do you do you have any other questions about that specific one?
Eric Houseman (42:35.887)
No, I know, you know, when you and I talked about this podcast, you know, coming into it, that was a question that I had because I’ve I’ve seen this called out by home inspectors in so many different ways. And I’ve always told people when I’m doing inspections on that style and era of home that, you know, the in my opinion, the requirement is you have it outside and within 10 feet of that door at the bottom of the stairway.
If that upper level is one big gigantic room. However, like what AJ said, there’s nothing wrong with putting one upstairs. my sister lives in one of these houses in St. Louis Park. And I remember having a conversation with her. Like, if I were you, I’d put one in both places. It just makes the most sense in my opinion. Like, are you really gonna scoff at $50 over life safety? No.
Reuben Saltzman (43:33.28)
I w I wanted to say something almost identical. Yes, Eric. Yes. Yeah. This is life safety we’re talking about.
I and you know, on that, when when Eric’s talking about, you know, as home inspectors, people argue about this, that, whatever. I I’m just wondering if you guys have any insights on on things that and and maybe you don’t even run across it, but I’m wondering if you ever do, you hear about home inspectors making recommendations for this, and you say, Well, that’s really not the best recommendation. I’d wish they would say this.
Or are there things that you hear that you say, I’d I wish you’d talk about this even more? I mean, what I guess what I’m asking is what kind of advice would you give to home inspectors that you want us to communicate to people buying houses? Other than the real obvious ones. Make sure your smoke alarms are there, make sure you test them, you know, all that that that’s the obvious stuff. We all do that. But what else can we do?
Jamie Smith (44:34.905)
Sure. you know, I I my expertise is on the, you know, fire response side. AJ also has expertise in that, but you know, he he’s really here to talk about the inspection side of it and the cold enforcement side. maybe he has some stories or words of wisdom he would like to to provide at this time.
A.J. Neis (44:59.345)
One of the one of the things that I have an expectation of of all my my inspectors, I never allow them to say because the code says so. They have to be able to explain the why. And not only do they have to explain the why, they have to be able to explain the intent of the code and what’s behind it. And if they can’t do that, then my question is, what is it that you’re actually enforcing? with with with home inspectors, you know.
Reuben Saltzman (45:22.04)
Mm.
A.J. Neis (45:25.231)
There is a fine line because we we do have that enforcement side of things. So if they’re not meeting that minimum standard, we have the ability and quite frankly the responsibility to to take action to make sure that that home is safe, possibly through an enforcement mechanism. When it comes to home inspectors, home safety, you know, again there’s nothing that would prohibit you from making recommendations that would go above and beyond or exceed that level. just understanding that again
We can only enforce that that minimum standard. So there’s nothing to say, hey, I’m a home inspector. I’m looking out to make sure that we want your building, we want your family, we want your tenants to be safe. In addition to this, this is what the minimum code standards are. It would be a good idea based on the observations that I’m seeing right here. And they’re like like Eric, you used the example that was at your sister’s house in St. Louis Park to say,
Eric Houseman (46:19.443)
Mm-hmm.
A.J. Neis (46:21.627)
Let’s put a s second CO alarm up here for an extra thirty or forty bucks. Man, you’re just adding an extra level of protection for your family or or your tenants. There’s nothing that would prohibit you from doing that.
Jamie Smith (46:35.513)
Yeah, yep, this the strongest home inspection reports are the ones that observe and obviously mark what is you know is or isn’t is not, I guess, in in the inspection world is not up to code. but you know, just to reiterate, going an extra mile and saying, hey, this might not be a code violation or it is up to standard, however, this is unsafe, or this is an added recommended level of safety that you can have. that to me, in my opinion.
would certainly strengthen a home inspection report for for any buyer specific to fire safety.
Reuben Saltzman (47:12.632)
Sure, sure. Okay. Excellent. And you know, maybe just to kind of wrap on this one, what what are you guys seeing? What what kind of fires are you seeing that just seem to happen over and over again? And you just say, Man, I wish people knew this. I wish people would do a better job of this and we could eliminate so many of these problems. What what type I mean, we’re going into the the fire season, the heating season fall.
this is where you start seeing an uptick. What advice do you have for the general public to make their houses safer today?
Jamie Smith (47:43.895)
I don’t know.
Jamie Smith (47:48.577)
Yeah, yeah, great question. I’ll go ahead and leave with that and then AJ, I’m certain certain you can you can fill in with some with some some advice as well. But you know, we are heading into the deadliest season for fire, death, destruction, injury, all those things. And reason being is because people are using you know different type of heating elements, right? Space heaters, heating blankets.
folks are using extra extension cords for you know holiday lights or religious type of you know decorations or things like that. We’re also cooking a lot more during these times. Again, usually for the holiday season or family, or it’s just you know it’s the winter time and you know you you just want to cook a little bit more and you don’t want to go outside when it’s 2030 below in the snow. So all of those things.
add to our fire danger within our homes. so you know there there’s a number of different things. You know, again, all the charging, all the electrical stuff, make sure that you’re using approved charging elements or extension cords make sure it has the UL you know stamp on it make sure it’s in good repair I see those all the time where you’ve got an extension cord
Or even a plug to an appliance or an unplug to the your your your heating blanket has been chewed on by your cat and it still works. So you think it’s fine. Well, you have removed some of that fire safety element from that that device. Replace it. Get a new one. you know, when we’re talking about space here is make sure there’s nothing within three feet. Make sure it’s on a a solid surface, make sure it has that that automatic shutoff if it does get knocked over.
Buy yourself, buy a blanket, or buy a pet or buy a child a child, anything. Make sure it has that automatic shut-off safety feature on it. and and and and just make sure that you know you’re using the holiday lights. I’m sorry. I I didn’t go on go into that, but if you do have holiday lights, shut them off when you go to bed. Don’t leave them on. Don’t leave them burned all the time. you know, if you’re using a tree that gets into a whole another set of can of worms, I’ll let AJ speak.
Reuben Saltzman (50:02.53)
Mm-hmm.
Jamie Smith (50:10.819)
on that specifically. but you know all in all, if we’re we’re doing these things and again, I’m not discouraging folks from from participating in any of these activities. What I am saying is you are adding to the fire, the potential fire risk of for yourself and for your home. And there are some some tips and tricks that we’ve just named that you can use to help keep yourself and your household safe. All right.
Reuben Saltzman (50:38.958)
Great. Thank you.
A.J. Neis (50:42.619)
Yeah, especially in regards to space heaters and things like that. One other thing, space heaters need to be plugged directly into an outlet within don’t have them within three feet of anything combustible, drapes, things like that. As as Jamie said, the tip up devices to make sure if they they fall over they’re gonna shut off, making sure they’re U all listed and approved. in addition to the the space heaters, check your building’s electrical system. Sometimes your your home is gonna top
to you and so if you have your space heater plugged in and that breaker trips find out why that’s tripping that that circuit might be overloaded and you might have too many things plugged into that so don’t just keep flipping that breaker back on every time you blow that that circuit because that’s it’s trying to tell you hey I’m getting too hot you know I need to cool down so making sure if you’re building your house is giving you those warning signs, pay attention to those.
Don’t say, I’m gonna just go buy a higher amp breaker and put in here. And now I’ve got a a 20 amp breaker for a 15 amp line, you know, those type of things because now it’s now your wiring’s just getting hotter. And again, I’m not gonna get technical. real Christmas trees, they’re beautiful. they’re great. I love the smell. making sure that they’re in a nice, tight fitted base.
Making sure they’re watered daily. If they start to dry out, if you start to see any of the bristles or branches start to fall, get that thing out of your house because that’s basically like having dynamite in there. Don’t wait till Christmas. Definitely get the lights out of them. Get them out of there. Recommend getting a a a a tree that has, you know, an artificial tree that’s got some type of flame retardant on it is obviously gonna be the best. We know that not everybody’s gonna do that.
And then just general fire safety. I can’t help but ignore the number one causes of fire in in in the United States, probably nationally and in the world are cooking fires. so it’s so important. Unattended cooking is probably by far and large the most number one cause of fires. So we can do all these things to keep our homes fire safe by talking about the electrical systems, by talking about all those things, but at the end of the day, be responsible.
Reuben Saltzman (52:51.438)
Mm.
Eric Houseman (52:52.315)
Mm.
A.J. Neis (53:06.94)
When you cook, stay and look. is like Eric said, when he unplugs his stuff, Eric’s already in charge of his home because he’s making sure that he unplugs everything before you know, once they’re done and so forth. So
Reuben Saltzman (53:24.884)
Excellent. Excellent. Well, this is great. And Eric, yeah.
Eric Houseman (53:28.881)
Yeah, I’ve I’ve got a quick question. I’m I’m not gonna well, okay. I I will throw my beautiful, lovely wife under the bus real quick. And she’s she’s upstairs, so she’s
Jamie Smith (53:39.183)
Are you sure? Are you sure, Eric? We’ll give you a chance here to think about this for a second.
Eric Houseman (53:43.09)
Nope. I’m just I’m going with it because I mean it’s gonna make good pod, right? so my wife frequently uses, my beautiful, lovely wife frequently uses a heating pad. What I mean, is this something? And typically she leaves it plugged in, it’s got, you know, one of those timers on it where it’s only on for so long. Like, is this something that we should be unplugging when it’s not in use? I I’m just thinking about like, you know.
I is this like a like a cell phone charging on the bed type of situation? Is this thing gonna be more dangerous if it’s underneath blankets or near other combustible materials?
Reuben Saltzman (54:23.138)
Thank you for asking my wife too. Appreciate it. Yes.
Eric Houseman (54:25.331)
You’re welcome, Ruben.
Jamie Smith (54:28.835)
Good question. we’ll tag team this one. You know, I can just say in general, and this is with any electrical device that you have, whether it’s a space heater, a blanket, a charger to an electrical device, again, make sure that it’s got that UL underwriting laboratory. They do testing, say fire safety testing on devices. Make sure it has that stamp on it. make sure that the cord is in good, you know, good use. You’re not using aftermarket cords or chargers.
You know, the the cheap charges that you get from you know, I won’t say names, but that you get online or from a gas station, they’re cheap and they work. So we assume they work, they they’re they’re fine. a lot of times they don’t have the same fire safety ratings or they’re not specifically rated for that device that you’re using. we always recommend turning things off when they’re not when they’re not in use. unplugging them is another safety factor as well.
AJ, I’ll let you go ahead and and fill in fill in the gaps.
A.J. Neis (55:31.58)
I don’t want to start rumors on your podcast, but I’m starting to wonder if we’re all married to the same person. I mean, yes. This is kind of scary here, but as a matter of fact, I had to shut my wife’s meeting pad up this morning before I left for work. so we’re not immune to it, even now that are in in in the business. we still have to sometimes remind and educate our our family members as well.
Yes. Make sure unplug them when they’re not in use. Do not use them. Try not to use them when you’re sleeping. Constantly check the cords. Because especially if they’re using it in Jamie, you might remember you and I were just personally at a building where we had this exact fire scenario. And it was a heating pad that was in a lazy boy chair that got wedged in between and as they’re reclining going up, reclining going down.
And that court got frayed and you know they kept it in that same central spot the entire time and then it wasn’t a matter of if it was when. And fortunately that building, and I’m just gonna put a shout out to Sprinkler Systems, it was a sprinkler controlled fire, nobody got hurt or injured. and Jamie and I got to go do some great education after the fire on that, but that was an exact an exact example of what we’re talking about. Constantly checking those cards, making sure they’re not subject to damage.
Reuben Saltzman (56:31.542)
Mm.
A.J. Neis (57:01.004)
and unplugging when you’re done. Again. Yes, they’re nice, but sleeping with those things, shut up, unplug If your wife if you’re you’re still up and your wife is sound asleep or she falls asleep in the chair, go unplug it behind her and she won’t know the difference. So I throw a blanket on her.
Reuben Saltzman (57:20.93)
Love it. Love it. That’s good advice. All right. Well, we we are at time. I definitely do not want to keep you guys any longer than I promised, but wanna thank you both so much for coming on the show. This is fantastic. just can’t thank you guys enough. And if if if people have any more questions, they can write into the show. I can reach out to you guys.
I’m not going to give out you guys’ contact info. I’m sure you you don’t need a bunch of people reaching out to you directly. But you can you can email us. It’s podcast at structuretech.com. And we’ll catch you next time. Thanks again, guys. Appreciate it.
A.J. Neis (58:01.2)
Okay. Yeah, thanks for having us. It’s been our pleasure. Thank you so much.
Eric Houseman (58:01.405)
Thanks guys.
Jamie Smith (58:01.859)
Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for having us. It’s been our pleasure.