For information about Tessa’s upcoming presentation for MAC ASHI on May 2nd, visit: https://www.macashi.org/calendar/274
To watch a video version of this podcast, click here: https://youtu.be/KhdZxrBD9mI
In this episode, Reuben Saltzman and Tessa Murry catch up on recent projects, share insights on home inspection practices, and discuss Spectora’s sale and its implications for inspectors. They explore lessons learned, industry challenges, and the importance of maintaining integrity in the home inspection field.
Here’s the link to Inspector Empire Builder: https://www.iebcoaching.com/events
Takeaways
The sale of Spectora raises serious questions about data ownership, privacy, and long‑term trust in inspection software.
Home inspectors must weigh convenience against control—software choices directly impact business independence.
Many industry controversies stem from reactive decisions made “too little, too late,” rather than proactive transparency.
Strong building science fundamentals remain critical, regardless of tools or technology used.
Simple field rules matter: never walk on a wet wood roof and disable features that introduce unnecessary risk.
Exhaust fan performance and installation are often overlooked but have significant moisture and indoor air quality implications.
Insurance constraints increasingly shape inspection practices, reports, and risk tolerance.
Long‑term success comes from learning openly from mistakes, maintaining professionalism, and protecting inspector credibility.
Inspection software will continue evolving, but integrity—not automation—defines quality inspections.
Chapters
00:00 Podcast Reboot and Busy Lives
01:52 Upcoming Conferences and Presentations
04:58 Personal Adventures and Family Trips
07:32 Home Inspection Insights and Controversies
11:39 Insurance and Its Impact on Home Inspections
16:51 Lessons Learned from Mistakes
23:07 The Structure Tech Difference
24:13 The Importance of Exhaust Fans in Home Inspections
26:22 Tools and Techniques for Effective Home Inspections
27:52 Navigating Changes in Home Inspection Software
30:42 The Spectora Controversy: Data Privacy Concerns
36:50 Finding Grace in Business Mistakes
42:45 The Future of Home Inspection Software
TRANSCRIPTION
The following is an AI-generated transcription from an audio recording. Although the transcription is mostly accurate, it will contain some errors due to inaudible passages or transcription errors.
Reuben Saltzman: Welcome to my house. Welcome to the Structure Talk podcast, a production of Structure Tech Home Inspections. My name is Reuben Saltzman. I’m your host alongside building science geek, Tessa Murry. We help home inspectors up their game through education, and we help homeowners to be better stewards of their houses. We’ve been keeping it real on this podcast since 2019, and we are also the number one home inspection podcast in the world, according to my mom.
Reuben Saltzman (00:01.238)
Welcome back to the structure talk podcast boy. We have missed a lot of podcasts this year. I mean I Don’t think we’ve recorded one in weeks now, but that’s okay. We’re here today
Tessa Murry (00:08.122)
we have.
Tessa Murry (00:14.353)
I feel a little rusty, Ruben.
Reuben Saltzman (00:17.41)
Yeah, what do we do? What’s this podcast about? We talk about houses, right? Yeah, we’ll talk about some house stuff today.
Tessa Murry (00:23.467)
Yeah, yeah. Well, here’s the thing that I appreciate. know, we both have busy schedules. We’re doing different things. We’re traveling. And so we do our best at trying to record these podcasts, but we don’t want to put out crap. We want to make our podcast interesting and have interesting guests on and talk about things that are relevant. So if we don’t have anything or we’re busy, nothing comes out. So we don’t. Yep.
Reuben Saltzman (00:47.246)
We don’t record them. Yeah, that’s okay. Yeah, what have you been up to lately?
Tessa Murry (00:52.939)
you know, life has been busy. been traveling and doing different work things, going back and forth to Minnesota, doing the house coach, consulting stuff, visiting family, had some other projects, going on too. And, I got a couple, are we, or should I, should I dive into kind of what’s upcoming here? Projects? Okay. Yeah. So there’s a, I’m working with the energy conservatory out of Minnesota.
Reuben Saltzman (01:15.692)
Yeah, let’s talk about it. Yeah.
Tessa Murry (01:22.819)
and I’ll be presenting with them at the National Home Performance Conference that’s in Columbus next week. So that’s April 13th through the 16th. So I’m excited about that. That should be a really fun conference. It’s called The House Always Wins, a class on building science basics. you know, the Energy Conservatory is full. We’ve had some guests on from the Energy Conservatory. And we actually had Steve Rogers on recently to talk, which was a fun.
Reuben Saltzman (01:32.417)
Okay.
What are you presenting on?
Reuben Saltzman (01:40.055)
Okay.
Tessa Murry (01:52.635)
fun podcast, but I’ll be presenting with him. And what we’re doing is we’re talking about kind of the interaction of the building envelope and HVAC and how that affects building performance, comfort, durability. And I have a lot of just from my, you know, structure tech days before that with, you know, weatherization and home performance testing. And then even with my house coach consulting, have lots of field pictures and examples of how houses fail.
and how complicated they are and how the house works as a system. And TEC has the science and the engineering to kind of do the math to show you how these things happen and how to test for them and what will happen if you tweak the system here, tweak the system here. And so Steve and I are going be co-presenting. And so I’ve got pictures of all these kind of failures in houses and he breaks down the math and says, well,
If we had all this frost in the attic and the house was 3 ACH 50 and the majority of the leaks were in the attic, what would happen? How much moisture would get up there on a daily basis? And he shows the amounts of water and how much water would get up there if we air sealed the attic? Okay, now reduce that. How much moisture would get up there if we just reduce the indoor humidity by 20 %? And so it’s going to be kind of interesting, think, having just the science melded with the field.
experience stuff.
Reuben Saltzman (03:19.245)
sounds fascinating. I want to attend this class, Tess. I’m not going out to Ohio, but…
Tessa Murry (03:22.572)
Yeah, hopefully it’ll be… It should be fun. It should be fun. And then I’ve got another conference for Mac Ashy coming up May 2nd in Rockville, Maryland. It’s their spring technical seminar. And I’ll be doing a four-hour session on building science and home inspections again. So kind of my niche.
Reuben Saltzman (03:42.004)
Awesome. And that one, I’m almost positive. I mean, I’m sure they broadcast. So even if you’re not going to be there, you can watch that one on Zoom if you want. So I’m sure they do that. They’re big into simulcasting all their conferences and whatnot. So I’ll put a link if people want to attend that session you’re doing. You can attend anywhere.
Tessa Murry (03:55.498)
okay, great, great.
Tessa Murry (04:01.082)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (04:04.952)
Awesome. Cool.
That’s awesome. I wonder if you attend it online. Is there a way they can give you credit to see depends on what state you’re probably tuning in from? Yeah. Okay. That’s very cool. That’s neat. Yeah. Well, what’s cool. Thanks, Ruben. So what’s new in your world? We have not talked in a while. So what’s, what’s new?
Reuben Saltzman (04:14.311)
I’m pretty sure they got that all dialed in. Yep. All right. Well, I’ll look for that link. Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (04:28.693)
Yeah, well When this airs I will have just gotten back from doing a similar deal. I’m gonna be teaching at Northern ashy Yeah, Northern Virginia ashy chapter Nova. I will have just gotten back from that I’m sure it will have gone great And then and then what else just got back from a spring break trip with the family
Tessa Murry (04:43.664)
Okay. Okay. Of course, Ruben, you’re a pro at this.
Reuben Saltzman (04:58.135)
We went to Zion National Park. You ever been there?
Tessa Murry (05:00.944)
no, but I’ve heard about it and seen pictures. How was it? Really? Wow.
Reuben Saltzman (05:05.131)
That was amazing. mean, jaw dropping stuff. And we took a two hour drive to what was it? Bryce Canyon too, which is pretty close by. And so it’s all pretty close. And I mean, just some of the most amazing stuff I’ve ever seen in my life. it’s not an expensive trip. I mean, you fly into Vegas, flights are pretty cheap to get to Vegas. You rent a vehicle and you drive about two and a half hours to get to Zion. And then
Tessa Murry (05:15.16)
Okay. Okay.
Tessa Murry (05:21.913)
Wow.
Tessa Murry (05:33.765)
Wow.
Reuben Saltzman (05:34.222)
you stay there and like everything you do is right along this strip and they’ve got all these shuttle buses that are just part of the park system that take you where you want to go. And it’s just, it’s a very affordable family trip. That’s for sure. And just crazy stuff. I took a million photos. I’ve taken, I took more photos there than I’ve taken on any trip I’ve ever taken. So.
Tessa Murry (05:50.138)
Wow, that’s awesome.
Tessa Murry (05:57.057)
Wow. Did the kids love it too? Yes. Awesome.
Reuben Saltzman (06:00.365)
They loved it. Yeah, they were. Yeah, they were. My son, especially, was super into the hikes. Yeah, a lot of hikes. And we got blessed with some really nice weather. was like 90 degrees every day. not but it’s not 90 degree Minnesota or Florida weather. I mean, it’s dry. so, you know, you’re looking at the weather app and it’s, you know, you got the 90 degrees in a Minnesota. It’ll say feels like 100. Well, here 90 feels like 80.
Tessa Murry (06:06.468)
Yeah. cool. Yeah. Yeah.
Tessa Murry (06:18.594)
It’s dry. Yeah.
Tessa Murry (06:29.92)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s much more. Yeah, yeah. that’s good. Well, that’s wonderful that you that you’re able to do that and get away for a little bit. I’ve got a little family trip coming up with just my parents to Idaho in about a month. We’re going to Boise. My my dad keeps a list of all the states he has not been to, and I think there’s only two left on this list, and Idaho is one of them. So I’ll be the
Reuben Saltzman (06:29.971)
or something like that. And so, I mean, we were never uncomfortable.
Reuben Saltzman (06:57.165)
Wow, I’ve heard there’s some beautiful stuff to see there.
Tessa Murry (07:00.976)
Yeah, yeah, it should be. We’ll be there for about a week. So I’m looking forward to that. That should be fun. Yeah, yeah. Last a couple years ago, it was like Delaware, know, places you wouldn’t think of going. there’s so many fascinating things. Every state has something, you know, has interesting things to it. You just have to kind of do some research and digging. And there was a lot of beautiful historic things we saw in Delaware and just really old houses and mansions and, you know, as is
Reuben Saltzman (07:06.349)
Sweet, sweet, I’m looking forward to hear how it goes.
Tessa Murry (07:31.008)
lot of neat history there too. yeah, yeah, should be fun.
Reuben Saltzman (07:32.43)
Yeah, yeah. Love it. Love it. Well, that’s, that’s some good catch up. We’ve got a few things to talk about today. And one of them, one of them is just a briefly touch on it. When I think it was when we were recording that podcast with Steve Rogers, and maybe even may have been one previous to that. I was just super whipped up. And I was like, well, we’ll talk about this later. And so
Tessa Murry (07:43.289)
Okay.
Tessa Murry (07:58.993)
Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (08:00.173)
I’ll just circle back to it very briefly. There was a blog post I wrote about testing GFCI receptacles how to test them and you know as home inspectors every home inspector has one of those three prong testers with the test button on it and My advice here is don’t ever use that button unless you have to unless you’re remote testing a receptacle and even then
Tessa Murry (08:03.64)
Okay.
Tessa Murry (08:24.594)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Reuben Saltzman (08:29.981)
It may not trip anything if it’s not grounded. And Tessa, I had like a million home inspectors jump on my Facebook page saying that’s not right. This is the way you’re supposed to test them. That’s why they make this device. That’s the whole purpose of it. like Tessa, my brain was going to explode.
Tessa Murry (08:53.038)
You haven’t received that much hate mail in a while probably, huh Ruben?
Reuben Saltzman (09:00.045)
I’m just like, and they’re saying, well, that’s how everybody does it. So you’re wrong. I mean, that was everybody’s response. And I thought I was going to lose my mind.
Tessa Murry (09:02.0)
He-
Tessa Murry (09:06.448)
You know?
Tessa Murry (09:09.912)
My guess is they’ve never hit that test button and tripped an outlet upstream that was located in a different room buried under boxes or behind cabinets that took them hours to find.
Reuben Saltzman (09:22.413)
or for that matter tripped six of them that were all wired in series and could only be reset in a certain order.
Tessa Murry (09:26.512)
Yeah
Tessa Murry (09:30.9)
You have to… what a nightmare. Luckily, I haven’t experienced that one.
Reuben Saltzman (09:38.028)
Yeah, and you know, I went on where was it? I shared an excerpt from the book. Electrical inspections of existing dwellings where I mean, there’s a whole page and a half explaining why you don’t want to use the test button on your three prong tester. mean, you. It’s not to say never, but why you want to avoid using it if you can.
Tessa Murry (09:51.6)
Mmm.
Reuben Saltzman (10:06.449)
And I asked Douglas Hansen if I could share that. He’s like, yeah, go ahead. And both Douglas and Mike Twitty ended up like chiming in on the conversation. It was nice to get a little backing from them. And that wasn’t all.
Tessa Murry (10:11.76)
Mm-hmm.
Tessa Murry (10:23.673)
It doesn’t get bigger than Mike Twitty and Douglas Hanson there and Ruben Saltzman. I’d be afraid to oppose you guys. What a force.
Reuben Saltzman (10:27.117)
Good night.
It was nice to get a little bit of confirmation that I’m not losing my mind from those guys, but I was just, I was just thinking, what are we, what are we coming to?
Tessa Murry (10:39.757)
You know, we live in a world full of…
Well, Ruben, think facts don’t matter anymore. science and facts don’t matter. So people believe what they want to believe and there you go. People have to learn the hard way sometimes, I guess, right? You can try.
Reuben Saltzman (10:47.659)
Yeah. Yep.
Yep. Yep. So that’s that was that home over it. Yeah. Yeah. Or maybe they’ll never learn. I don’t know. I’ve learned the hard way many times, Tess. I in fact, you know what? That’s something else I thought I wanted to touch on briefly was a podcast that I wrote. I guess I published it March 31st.
Tessa Murry (11:04.753)
Same.
Tessa Murry (11:18.737)
Okay.
Reuben Saltzman (11:19.077)
And was something I had been thinking about for a while. And I was talking about how, this is the title of it, was how a insurance company made us a better home inspection company. so here’s the story. Here’s how it works. Back in the day,
Tessa Murry (11:34.405)
Hmm, okay.
Reuben Saltzman (11:41.356)
when it was just me and my dad and one other guy, we would do a lot of truth and housing and evaluations. And you know, it’s those little one hour inspections that Minneapolis and St. Paul and a handful of other cities require before you can put a property up for sale. It’s mandated by the city. They’ve got their own form that you gotta follow. And they’re very specific and it’s not a home inspection, but we would do a lot of those.
Tessa Murry (11:59.538)
Mm-hmm.
Reuben Saltzman (12:11.125)
and my dad did them, I was licensed to do them. And to do these inspections, the city requires some really unusual insurance, stuff that your traditional home insurance provider just will not do. And to this day, I still can’t find a single insurance provider who will give us the type of outlandish coverage that Minneapolis and St. Paul
require for these. So to get insurance, all the guys, I shouldn’t say guys, all the people who are doing these truth and housing evaluations end up going through something called a joint underwriters association, which is basically this conglomeration of insurance companies who kind of feed this pool and they provide insurance to
Tessa Murry (12:42.545)
Hmm.
Tessa Murry (12:49.083)
Mm-hmm.
Reuben Saltzman (13:09.015)
people who do a service like this where it has been deemed necessary. This is a service that needs to happen, but it’s really hard to ensure. So they create this special group to ensure these uninsurable people and you end up paying through the nose for this insurance. It’s like you pay for every tissue evaluation you do. And I don’t know about these exact numbers, but
Tessa Murry (13:16.721)
Hmm.
Tessa Murry (13:27.409)
Wow. Yeah.
Tessa Murry (13:35.419)
Wow.
Reuben Saltzman (13:38.67)
You know, for instance, if we charge $200 for a truth and housing evaluation, we might pay $20 per inspection for insurance. I mean, they charge you for every single one. And it’s I mean, it’s way more than what you’d pay for anything else. But on the plus side, you can never be dropped. It doesn’t matter how many times you screw up, how many claims you have.
Tessa Murry (13:49.649)
Wow. Wow. Wow.
Tessa Murry (13:56.849)
Hmm.
Tessa Murry (14:02.939)
Huh.
Reuben Saltzman (14:08.129)
whatever goes wrong, yeah, how many roofs you step through, how many houses you flood, doesn’t matter what you do, you cannot be dropped and your rates will not increase. They will end up raising the rates for the entire class.
Tessa Murry (14:08.303)
How many roofs you fall off of. my god. Yeah. Yeah. Wow.
Tessa Murry (14:24.187)
Huh.
Reuben Saltzman (14:30.647)
So all of the home inspectors who are covered by them will pay higher rates the following year or lower rates the following year, depending on what they had to pay out. It’s always gone up. you don’t, yeah, and you have a zero deductible. I mean, you screw something up. You’re not paying a penny out of your pocket. And, you know, even with all that, I mean, you end up paying way more than what you would otherwise.
Tessa Murry (14:40.247)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Tessa Murry (14:49.593)
Okay. Okay.
Tessa Murry (14:59.183)
Mm-hmm.
Reuben Saltzman (14:59.425)
But it was a very unique situation. And because we had this, we used this insurance for our home inspections too. It’s like, all right, well, we already have it for truth and housing, might as well use it for home inspections. And so we have this super crazy insurance for all of our home inspections. I’m just kind of setting the stage here. And so.
Tessa Murry (15:19.427)
Yeah, yeah, okay. I didn’t know any of this, so this is very interesting.
Reuben Saltzman (15:23.881)
Yeah, it’s it’s very weird. And I was realizing that this really shaped who we are as a company having this type of insurance, because back in the day, when I first started getting into home inspections, I’d go to conferences and I’d go to seminars and I’d hear from other home inspectors who have been doing this for a long time, you know, 20, 30 years, whatever. And they they tell me, you know, never do this. Never do that.
Tessa Murry (15:48.923)
Mm-hmm.
Reuben Saltzman (15:54.062)
You’re gonna get sued. You’re gonna break something. You’re gonna cause a leak. You’re gonna put your foot through. get, you know, they all these things. They’d say never do any of this. Never use a moisture meter because you’re gonna get sued. I just the most paranoid stuff you can imagine. And I always just kind of thought to myself, well, you know what? I think it’s a cool thing to do and I’m gonna try it. And I’ve got this safety net below me.
Tessa Murry (16:02.961)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (16:23.503)
Mm-hmm.
Reuben Saltzman (16:24.255)
And it doesn’t really matter how bad I screw stuff up. I’m going to try it anyway. You know, it’s kind of like the question. How would you run your business if you knew you couldn’t fail? What what types of things would you do? And that’s kind of what it felt like to me. And I didn’t I didn’t really realize it at the time. Huh?
Tessa Murry (16:27.611)
No
Tessa Murry (16:40.709)
Yeah. Yeah.
The zero deductible, yeah, the zero dollar deductible is so empowering and emboldening.
Reuben Saltzman (16:52.425)
So empowering. It’s like, know what? I’m going to do whatever I want. And if I screw something up, I screw it up. And I’ll tell you, I screwed a lot of things up. I made a lot of mistakes. I did a lot of things that I yeah, I mean, I’ve shared it on the podcast. Well, some of the mistakes we’ve made. But and, you know, here’s some some lessons that I learned the hard way. I didn’t learn these from other people telling me not to do it because
Tessa Murry (16:59.856)
Wow.
Tessa Murry (17:04.229)
Well, we all did. We all have.
Huh, we have… Yo, yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (17:21.941)
I’m stubborn. I learned by making mistakes. I’ll go over this list real quickly. It’s stuff we’ve surely all covered on this podcast. And I’ve surely told you while you were in training at structure tech, don’t ever do these things. Don’t ever operate a water valve. Maybe if it’s a quarter turn valve, maybe you’re okay doing that, but don’t don’t operate the other valves. It’s gonna leak. You’re gonna have a mess. Don’t ever operate a boiler radiator valve.
Tessa Murry (17:23.171)
Hehehehehe
Tessa Murry (17:33.755)
Yes.
Tessa Murry (17:43.386)
Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (17:50.702)
I used to open those with impunity until the one day I didn’t. Don’t ever leave a bathroom with the tub filling.
Tessa Murry (17:51.513)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (18:04.203)
Mm-hmm. I can speak to that one. Yeah
Reuben Saltzman (18:06.125)
Yep. Don’t ever flood test a tiled shower pan. Now we used to do that all the time, but I’ve just come to realize too many leaks and too many people who can’t understand this is a good test. Don’t reset a tripped circuit breaker. The circuit breaker is tripped, stripped for a reason. The last time I reset one, I remember I was in a house by myself. I turned it on and then I heard
Tessa Murry (18:12.971)
Yeah. Yeah. Too many leaks. Too many leaks.
Reuben Saltzman (18:35.605)
all this sparking and arcing at an outlet and sparks coming out of the wall and I quickly turned it off. I could have started that fire. Don’t ever turn on a break. So lucky. Yeah. This one, I mean, I don’t know who would do this. It’s just dumb, but I’m going to say it anyway because I used to do it. Don’t don’t remove the blower fan on a furnace. You know, pull the whole fan out and then crawl inside the furnace to look for cracks in the heat exchanger.
Tessa Murry (18:37.723)
You
Tessa Murry (18:43.131)
So lucky it was in the same room as you, so you could see that. Lesson learned quickly.
Tessa Murry (18:56.699)
Hope I didn’t do it.
Reuben Saltzman (19:05.708)
Don’t do that.
Tessa Murry (19:05.935)
Ruben, I can’t remember where that I’m having deja vu. I’ve read this for you, the statement from you before. And I remember thinking, what? You used to remove the blower fan? What? Why? Why? And when did you do that?
Reuben Saltzman (19:18.325)
Yeah, I would do it when I was curious. Well, I went to this seminar and it was a seminar for heating contractors and he was showing heating contractors how to find cracks and that’s what he said. I mean, it was put on by this group called Heat Exchanger Experts and you know, he showed you how to do it. You pull the blower fan out of there and you get underneath it. You look with the flashlight and you can find cracks and I found a lot of cracks but you the last…
Tessa Murry (19:27.639)
Yeah, clearly.
my gosh.
Wow.
Wow.
Tessa Murry (19:42.779)
Geez, that is just above and beyond, Ruben. Good job. Good job for you. But yeah, so much time and liability. What happened? Can you share with the kids?
Reuben Saltzman (19:48.834)
Well, I learned the hard way why I shouldn’t. Yeah. Well, this one had a heat sensor or a high limit sensor or something on the backside of the blower. So when you pulled the blower out, the wires pulled out of it. And I didn’t know it was there. And so I put the blower back in and the furnace wouldn’t turn back on. And
Tessa Murry (20:07.024)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (20:16.273)
Reuben Saltzman (20:16.831)
I ended up spending like an hour, hour and half, something like that, trying to figure out why the furnace wouldn’t turn back on and finally figured it out. But it was just a huge waste of time. And, I could have broke something. And at some point it’s like, all right, quit being an idiot. Stay in your lane. We’re not there to do that. So don’t do that. Now, this one, this is this is the last one on the list. I got it listed twice. Never walk on a wood roof.
Tessa Murry (20:26.299)
my gosh. Ugh. Ugh. man. Wow. Wow. That’s crazy.
Reuben Saltzman (20:45.057)
Now doesn’t matter how much insurance you have, that’s just a stupid thing to do.
Tessa Murry (20:50.555)
Wait, not even after a rain. You’re just saying don’t walk on it, period. a wet wood root. Okay, got it, got it. Thank you. Okay, wet, yes.
Reuben Saltzman (20:54.773)
A wet, a wet wood roof. Yeah, yeah, I’m fine walking wood roofs, but don’t walk a wet one. And, you know, I’ve probably shared on the podcast at some point, but there was one where it was a frosty morning and all of the shingles looked great. They were dry. They had nice grip. But then I put one foot in a section that was in the shade and it all the water hadn’t evaporated yet.
Tessa Murry (21:11.47)
Oof.
Tessa Murry (21:20.12)
Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (21:23.967)
and I went down so fast and I slid right to the bottom of the roof and there was a gutter that caught me like my foot hit the gutter and I didn’t fall off but it was scary. that was so lucky, so lucky. and you know, these are just, these are some of the dumb things I could think of off the top of my head.
Tessa Murry (21:30.889)
Tessa Murry (21:34.793)
my gosh. You are so lucky. Ugh. That’s scary.
Well, lessons learned. You know, I was on a roof with your dad. This was a two-story house with a third floor walk-up attic, so very high up and hip roof. And it was an old three-tab shingle. And I think it was a little frosty. We waited for the frost to melt. again, sections of the roof still have some frost on it. And you get up there and it was, we didn’t realize how bad of shape the shingles were in.
until we decided to come back down. And then it was, we had to do like crab walk slide on your butt because just the granules were coming off so badly. And it was just my, my hands are sweating thinking about that. I’m so glad we got off that rope. It was so sketchy. Sometimes you just don’t know until you get like you get on it and you’re like, Oh, you got this gut feeling as soon as you step in. Like I should not be doing this. Pay attention to that gut feeling. Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (22:25.099)
Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (22:29.997)
Yes. Yes.
Reuben Saltzman (22:39.381)
Yes, yes, exactly. Yep, yep. Amen. So that that that’s that’s a big list of things to not do. But there’s a ton of things that we do do that go way above the basic standards of practice that I just experimented with. And I thought this is a good test to do. I know I’ve had a lot of people tell me don’t do this, but haven’t had a problem with it and
Tessa Murry (22:45.403)
Yeah. Well.
Tessa Murry (23:01.777)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (23:06.256)
Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (23:08.459)
You know, we got a ton of inspectors doing it and I think it’s a good thing to do. So.
Tessa Murry (23:14.097)
Can you highlight a couple of those things that you do that a lot of other companies don’t do and why you’ve decided to do them?
Reuben Saltzman (23:22.335)
sure. we could touch on a few briefly and, know, to make it easy, I’ve got a big list. If you, if you’re on our website and you go under services and home inspections, you can see, we got this big thing called the structure tech difference. for instance, well, mean, filling bathtubs and sinks. I’m a big fan of doing that. I mean, we don’t just run some water in a sink. You fill the sink up.
Tessa Murry (23:28.664)
perfect.
Tessa Murry (23:45.265)
Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (23:50.572)
You pull the stopper, you let it drain. For bathtubs, I’m still a fan of testing overflows at bathtubs, provided you have access to the overflow. If you can see it when it’s going to leak, by all means test it. And well, okay. I want to tell stories about every one of these, but I’ll take up the whole podcast. had one of them. feel like I’m burying the lead because I know we’re probably going to title this podcast and I have one other topic that I want to talk about. So we.
Tessa Murry (23:57.317)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (24:05.229)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (24:18.125)
okay, yes, let’s get to it then.
Reuben Saltzman (24:20.183)
We won’t get too deep on this, I mean, exhaust fans, making sure that you’re turning on every exhaust fan, every bathroom fan, every hood fan, every clothes dryer, and then you’re verifying air exhausting at the exterior. Do that every time.
Tessa Murry (24:27.695)
Tessa Murry (24:33.201)
Mmm.
Tessa Murry (24:36.657)
Can I just give you a round of applause? Thank you for doing that. You and the StructureTech team, because I was in a house just the other week that has been inspected several times by insulation companies, by architects, by contractors. And I went up there with my IR camera. There was a warm spot under the insulation. Found a bath fan that had been buried in insulation. And
There was the roof vent that was already in place, but there was no duct going to it. But somehow it got missed. All these people missed it. It’s like, how does that happen? In a cold climate like Minnesota, you do not want your bath fan venting into a cold attic. That’s a disaster. So someone’s got to look for that stuff.
Reuben Saltzman (25:16.78)
over and over again.
Reuben Saltzman (25:24.407)
No, no, that’s bad news. Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (25:31.406)
And then just, I mean, power through it using a bunch of tools, using a moisture meter all the time, using an infrared camera all over the place, using a combustion analyzer to test the operation of the furnace, using a gas sniffer to check boilers for exhaust gas leaks, to check fireplaces for exhaust gas leaks. I’ve got a great blog post coming up on how to inspect
Tessa Murry (25:41.19)
Yeah.
Hmm
Yeah. Yes.
And fireplaces. Yeah. Yeah.
Tessa Murry (25:59.356)
Ooh.
Reuben Saltzman (26:00.705)
Excuse me on how to inspect gas fireplaces. can’t wait to publish that one. It’s like, it’s like a 18 minute video that I made on inspecting gas fireplaces. And I went searching for this information and it’s not out there. So I’m excited to share that one, but just all these different things we do that make us different. I realized we did it because we had a safety net and I could test these out for a long time. Now today we structure tech does not have that same insurance. mean.
Tessa Murry (26:04.369)
Tessa Murry (26:10.533)
That’s great.
Tessa Murry (26:15.151)
Wow, that’s
Reuben Saltzman (26:30.751)
It just, at some point, it doesn’t make sense, especially when hardly anybody on my team does truth and housing evaluations compared to what it used to be. Now we’ve got the more traditional insurance and we’ve got a deductible and all that. so it’s not like we’re flying without a safety net anymore. When we screw something up, it hurts our pocketbook. Yeah. But, that’s yeah, that’s that. Wanted to share that something made it unique.
Tessa Murry (26:37.041)
Mmm.
Mm-hmm.
Tessa Murry (26:43.93)
Okay.
Tessa Murry (26:50.629)
Yeah, yep, yeah, huh.
Tessa Murry (26:58.937)
Yeah. Well, I, you know, that’s very cool. I didn’t realize why, why StructureTech was going above and beyond all these things and risking potential, you know, fixes and things. But I think that’s really cool. And I’m glad that you had that experience. I’m glad you had that coverage that gave you the confidence to try these things and do these things and figure out what worked and what didn’t work. And also I think
Reuben Saltzman (27:01.056)
And.
Tessa Murry (27:26.189)
find a niche in the market too, offering these home inspections that are very thorough, but focus on things that people care about, the health, safety, and durability of the house. These tests that you’re talking about really do that for people. They make sure that there’s not carbon monoxide leaking out of their fireplace and that the heat register isn’t covered up by carpet. All these things that if you’re just doing a basic standard home inspection, a lot of times that’s
something that’s not checked for.
Reuben Saltzman (27:57.25)
Yeah, yeah, you’re not gonna catch most of this stuff. yeah. All right, so that was a blog post. I wanted to share that. And then the last thing to talk about today is I guess what I’m calling Spectora gate. And you knew exactly what I was talking about. I mean, you’re not even doing home inspections anymore, but you knew about this.
Tessa Murry (28:00.422)
Yeah. Yeah.
Tessa Murry (28:12.785)
You
Tessa Murry (28:23.533)
Yeah, I have some separation now between me and the home inspector world, but it’s still infiltrated my feeds, Reuben. I got bombarded by all the drama happening right now in the world. So tell me what’s going on, Reuben? What’s the dirt?
Reuben Saltzman (28:30.411)
Yes, yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (28:40.523)
All right, so here’s the deal. So there’s the software that we use for home inspections at StructureTech. We use something called Spectora. You were one of the ones who was kind of pushing to switch over to Spectora. You and Eric and a few other people on the team, we made that switch during COVID where we had some downtime. Because it takes a lot of work to switch software. I mean, it is a lot of
Tessa Murry (29:00.113)
Mm-hmm.
Tessa Murry (29:06.721)
yeah, there’s a big learning curve too with that.
Reuben Saltzman (29:09.953)
Big learning. Yep. But we switched over, we started using them and it’s been great. We know the, well, who were the owners, Kevin and Mike Weig staff. We’ve had Kevin on the podcast, I think more than once, maybe just once, I’m not sure, but we’ve had Kevin on the podcast. Good dude, gotten to know him over the years.
Tessa Murry (29:26.637)
A long time ago.
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (29:35.789)
even better beach volleyball player. Yes, I did. Are they still the owners?
Reuben Saltzman (29:39.893)
Him and his brother. You saw the winner tournament, didn’t you? Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (29:48.302)
No, see they sold Spectora back in, and you know, I may have my dates wrong. I want to say 2024, but I’m not positive. You know, for any of the listeners, if I’m wrong about the dates, you don’t need to tell me, it’s irrelevant. The point to. Thanks Tess. Go to my Facebook page. I love that, yeah.
Tessa Murry (29:49.617)
that makes sense. Okay.
Tessa Murry (29:57.786)
Okay. Okay.
Tessa Murry (30:04.209)
Just send the hate mail to Reuben at or go to his Facebook page and that’s where he was. There you go. Even better.
Reuben Saltzman (30:14.829)
But they sold Spectora. I don’t know how much they sold it for. I know it was tens of millions. They sold it for a lot of money and good for them because they got to a… They worked so hard. Yeah, they deserve it. They deserve it. I mean, they made a great product. And last I heard, think something like 75 % of home inspectors are using Spectora.
Tessa Murry (30:21.071)
Wow.
Good for them. They worked so hard. Yeah. They worked so hard and they built a great team. Yeah.
Tessa Murry (30:41.765)
Really? You… Well, I’m not surprised. mean, the software was… I still stand by it. It’s great.
Reuben Saltzman (30:49.025)
Yeah, yeah, real good software. You know, it’s not flawless. It’s got its got its issues here and there, but I mean, it’s better than anything else. So great software. And I like those guys. you know, hats off to them. I think what they did is fantastic. They, like I said, they sold the company. I’m pretty sure it was a private equity firm who purchased Spectora and something that
Tessa Murry (30:51.215)
Yeah. All right. Nothing’s perfect.
Reuben Saltzman (31:17.367)
Kevin and Mike had always said is, we’re going to protect your data. We’re not going to release your client’s data. We’re not going to be selling it to other people. We’re not going to have, we’re not going to be soliciting your clients to sign up for home insurance through this company and all that. That was, that was always very important to them. Well, it’s apparently not important to the company who bought Spectora because
Tessa Murry (31:25.755)
Mm-hmm.
Reuben Saltzman (31:44.61)
Somewhere I believe it was March 31st. It was the day before April Fool’s Day. They made this announcement saying, hey, home inspector starting in like a week or something. You’re going to have this new thing that your clients are going to see where they go to access their inspection report. They’re going to be sold on these other services. Like you’re going to have
Tessa Murry (31:53.731)
Ironic.
Reuben Saltzman (32:13.047)
that you’re have insurance and alarm systems. And I don’t know what, doesn’t matter. I don’t wanna get in the weeds about that, but they’re gonna be selling stuff to our customers. And the customer doesn’t need to sign up for these services. They can just check a box or something and say, no, I don’t want it. But I think a lot of consumers would see this screen.
Tessa Murry (32:34.832)
Mm-hmm.
Reuben Saltzman (32:41.119)
And they’d go, I need to fill this out to get my report. And they might type in their info, check the box, not even read what they’re doing. And then they’re going to start getting contacted by people. And it’s not going to look good on us, the home inspectors, because then they’re going to come back and they’re going to, they’re going to complain. Yeah. Yeah. And I don’t think it’s that big of a deal for them to offer this, but
Tessa Murry (32:46.394)
Hmm.
Tessa Murry (32:52.613)
Hmm.
Tessa Murry (32:59.185)
You sold my information. I didn’t want all these ads or these people calling me.
Reuben Saltzman (33:10.421)
The problem is that they told all the home inspectors, this is going to show up on your portal where your clients log in and you don’t have the option to turn it off. I think that’s kind of where they went wrong. They just crammed it down our throats. And then they also said, you only got a week. This is coming a week from now. And the Internet’s blew up. Yeah.
Tessa Murry (33:24.773)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (33:37.433)
Yeah, that did not go well.
Reuben Saltzman (33:40.108)
did not go well. Home inspectors were furious. I mean, I the next day, April Fool’s Day. mean, I wasn’t the one who said this, but another home inspector said, look, this is their chance. They got a few hours left. It’s still April Fool’s. They could just say, hey, it was a joke. Bad joke. We’re not good at humor. Yeah, just kidding. We’re not doing this. And maybe they could kind of save a little bit of face, just a little.
Tessa Murry (33:57.938)
Just kidding.
Reuben Saltzman (34:09.889)
You know, they were serious. They’re like, yeah, we see all your concerns, but we’re still doing it. We’re still going forward with it too bad. And that was the following day. They were still going to go through with it. And I mean, I remember looking on their, on their Facebook page at some point there was almost a thousand comments. then Eric looked on there like an hour later, he said there was over a thousand comments. mean, people just mad and home inspectors are making videos. People are given.
Spectora one star ratings. mean, just you name it. mean, ruthless, furious responses. And eventually they kind of pulled it back. mean, my response was, my response was, I’m not, I’m not happy about this. I don’t like them advertising to my customers and I’m going to just send them an email and ask them if they can not do it. And I sent a very short email because I mean, I’ve seen
Tessa Murry (34:52.943)
Hmm.
Reuben Saltzman (35:08.683)
I saw people writing tombs about how egregious this was and how we’re all wronged. And I just thought maybe it’ll just be short and short and sweet here. said, Hey guys, I’d love it if you could turn off this feature. And if you can’t, I’m probably going to have to shop for different software. And it’s like, I’m not making the switch tomorrow. I wouldn’t even be able to start shopping until the slow season, but eventually I’m going to have to look for something else.
Tessa Murry (35:10.993)
you
Tessa Murry (35:28.251)
Yeah.
No.
Tessa Murry (35:34.478)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (35:38.03)
going to be inconvenient because I’m to have to explain why this shows up to all my customers and tell them, look, my software vendor isn’t doing what I want them to, but we’ll, get over it. And then I said, I know, you know, why, I mean, I didn’t give them all the list of reasons. just saying, you know, you know why I don’t like this. And within hours they got back to me and they’re like, yep, no problem. We’ll turn it off on your portal. Yeah.
Tessa Murry (35:42.938)
Hmm.
Tessa Murry (35:54.35)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (36:03.46)
What?
Reuben Saltzman (36:05.581)
Even though they had publicly said they’re not going to do it, they got back to me and they said, yep, we’ll shut it off for you. It’s like, okay, great. That’s the end of it. I’m not, I didn’t lose any sleep over it. I didn’t feel any strong emotions over it. wasn’t that big of a deal to me. I know that there’s a lot of home inspectors who are, I don’t know, maybe they’ll call me an idiot for not getting mad, but I was mildly annoyed. That’s, that’s how I would describe it.
Tessa Murry (36:32.529)
Well, Ruben, your approach seemed to have worked. So maybe that’s a lesson for the rest of us.
Reuben Saltzman (36:38.241)
Yeah Maybe but but I mean there was that but then you know, I think it was the next day or the day after that perhaps They made an announcement basically saying the same thing. They told me to everybody they said home inspectors if you don’t want it, we’re gonna turn it off and They yeah, they apparently have acknowledged that this was a very
Tessa Murry (36:54.424)
Tessa Murry (36:59.921)
Problem solved!
Reuben Saltzman (37:06.573)
poor rollout on their end. said, look, we screwed up. did not have a home inspector advisory board in place. We did not ask you guys what you were gonna think of this. And we rolled it out with no time and we gave you no choices and we will never do this again. And I just replied, that’s great. Thank you. Appreciate it. But there was a lot of people who
Tessa Murry (37:08.977)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Tessa Murry (37:17.457)
clearly.
Tessa Murry (37:32.771)
Wow.
Reuben Saltzman (37:36.482)
just said, too little, too late. You done stood up. I will never trust you again. And blah, blah, blah. And I don’t know. It just, it bugged me because I thought, what if I make a mistake someday? What if I roll out some service that I didn’t do enough research on? what if we come out with a new service and I didn’t ask enough real tours? What they thought about it.
Tessa Murry (37:46.501)
Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (38:06.567)
And then everybody hates StructureTech and they’ll never trust us again. Like, it just seems like you should be able to make a mistake and not get eviscerated for it. Maybe I’m being too casual with this, but what were your thoughts reading some of the comments, Tess?
Tessa Murry (38:12.251)
home.
Tessa Murry (38:27.963)
Well, you know, well, first of all, this is news to me. I didn’t realize that they responded and that they said that they would turn it off. I because again, I’ve kind of tuned out of that world and I only saw all the very angry posts. That’s what I got. So it’s a surprise to me hearing that they responded and they responded the way they did. And they said, whoops, we made a mistake and we’ll fix this. So that’s number one. And number two, I just have to say, Ruben,
Reuben Saltzman (38:43.286)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (38:57.905)
kudos to you. You are an example to us all of how we should be as a human being because I just have to say the times that we’re living in right now, Ruben, it just seems like so many things are being exposed of just the injustices and just things are unfair. People are feeling it. People are hurting.
Reuben Saltzman (39:05.003)
I’m not.
Tessa Murry (39:23.087)
they don’t want to be taken advantage of. And I can see how something like this would just trigger people. so for you to be able to say, hey, we all make mistakes, that’s hard for a lot of people. And I get that. get that these businesses and the software is their life. These clients are their life.
and reflects on their business and so they take it very seriously and I understand probably how they feel and want to move on but I also respect where you’re coming from and you’re like, know what, I have to grant you, I have to grant some grace here and you know what, they’re doing what I asked for and so we’re going to move on. And I think that’s, I want to be like that as a person and I think that’s a…
just a very wise way of being in this world if you don’t want to give yourself a stroke. You want to be the best person you can be. I think holding on to a lot of anger and holding on to a lot of grudges, you have a right when you’ve been wronged to feel that way and to hold on to as long as you want. But I’ll just say from personal experience and personal matters,
It doesn’t feel good to be angry all the time or to be focused on the injustices in your life. It prevents you from being able to move on and to do other things and to do better things and to connect and to love and to enjoy life and to have fun. And I choose to not live my life in the former way. I want to be the best person I can be. I want to give back. want to make a positive change. so…
Reuben Saltzman (40:54.284)
No.
Tessa Murry (41:19.281)
So I admire kind of your approach on that. And I think it’s hard for a lot of people to do that, but you did it and things work out for you.
Reuben Saltzman (41:25.837)
and just do it for yourself. Do it for yourself. I mean, you don’t even need to do it for the other person that you’re forgiving or letting it go. You’re a happier person where you can let things go.
Tessa Murry (41:29.477)
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (41:37.598)
yeah. No, it has nothing to do with that person. mean, honestly, you don’t have to forgive the person that wronged you. That is, you know, totally up to you. But do you choose to live your life kind of stuck in that place of feeling wronged and angry and, you know, victimhood and, and you can live in it for a while, but eventually it just wears you down, I think. it’s, you know, but,
Reuben Saltzman (41:57.57)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (42:00.964)
There was something else I was going to say, yeah, when you were talking about just granting grace and you know, what if I make a What if I do this wrong? And I was just thinking, even, you know, when I was part of the leadership team at StructureTech, it’s like, yeah, we, sometimes we thought, you know, we had great ideas about changes we would make and we would roll it out. And then the team’s feedback would be like, what? And we’d have whiplash like, oops, okay, maybe we, maybe we’re wrong.
about that and we’d have to roll something back, you know, and or undo something. you know, we kind of, I think we, it helped us become better, better as a team too, because then we’re like, well, we obviously don’t know what’s best all the time. And it, you know, it humbles you. So it’s, it’s good to hear that, you know, Spectora responded and they responded positively eventually. I probably when they had enough people threatened to quit or leave, realized.
Reuben Saltzman (42:29.429)
Yes, yes.
Tessa Murry (42:56.433)
their profits were going to go down the tube and they had no choice. So even if it wasn’t out of the goodness of their hearts, if it was a business decision, they still made the right decision.
Reuben Saltzman (43:07.051)
And yeah, and I mean, to be fair, it’s like they didn’t even make the change. They announced they were going to make the change. The change hadn’t even been made yet. So I just thought, all right, look, you said you were going to do it. Everybody said you’re dumb. This is a horrible rollout. And they, you know, took him a day or two, but they went, OK, yeah, I guess we were done. This was a horrible rollout. The end. Let it go.
Tessa Murry (43:18.543)
Yeah. Yeah.
Tessa Murry (43:28.677)
And then they think, okay, whoops, yep.
Yeah. Wow. Well, so is the drama still going on? Is there still on there’s still people talking about it and as people are leaving people are leaving.
Reuben Saltzman (43:40.89)
Yes, I think there are, people are saying, well, I will never trust them again and I need to find new software. And, know, I’ve had a number of home inspectors reach out. What are you guys doing? And I’ll just say it on the podcast here. I’m not planning to switch software. I’ve been very happy with Spectora. If something great and shiny and new and better came along, I mean, maybe I would switch, but it’d have to be.
Tessa Murry (43:45.328)
Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (44:09.397)
really great because changing software is such a huge task. And I mean, it’s such a learning curve with the entire team. I feel very locked into what we’re doing. So I don’t have any plans to switch. If I were a one man shop, it’d probably be a lot easier. But having a team. Yeah. Happy with what we got.
Tessa Murry (44:09.457)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (44:23.631)
Yeah, yeah.
Tessa Murry (44:28.625)
But still, yeah, that’s a lot of work. Yeah, yeah, no, I get it. I get it. Wow. Well, and you know what? I think of myself as being a fairly optimistic person, but some things I can be a little bit more cynical about and one of those things is just like, corporate America. All right, yeah, okay, you know.
I loved the, you know, the brothers that originally built Spectora. got to know them as we were talking about, then they sold it to private equity. Okay. At that point, it’s like, you know what? It’s a for-profit company. They are going to do what makes them the most money. And again, being a cynical person is like, okay, you can shop around for the other providers, but what’s the guarantee that they’re going to be led by their heart and not making profit or business decisions too? And that that could happen with anyone else.
That’s just the world we live in, you know?
Reuben Saltzman (45:20.865)
Yes, I mean, let’s be honest. It feels like everybody should have seen this coming. You’re not going to have this private equity group buy this home inspection software and just keep it as is. Of course, they’re going to make changes.
Tessa Murry (45:31.013)
it’s happening everywhere. yeah. There’s a way to mine that data and for them to make money and they’re sitting on a gold mine. I’m surprised it hasn’t happened early. Think about all the times you’re talking, you’ve got your phone sitting next to you, you’re having a conversation about going somewhere and then all of sudden you get these custom apps that pop up for these places you’re talking about or these things that you were talking.
Reuben Saltzman (45:43.669)
Yeah. Yeah.
Tessa Murry (45:56.55)
You know, it happens all the time. Our data is being tracked and sold and we’re being marketed to all the time. Why didn’t they tap into the home inspector world sooner? You know, it was like you said, a matter of time.
Reuben Saltzman (45:59.297)
All the time.
Reuben Saltzman (46:09.825)
Yep, and we’re just, we’re gonna see more and more of this and that’s just the way the world is. Yeah.
Tessa Murry (46:13.222)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (46:16.837)
But people should definitely get mad about that. We should get mad about that. If we don’t want our data sold, we should say something about that.
Reuben Saltzman (46:23.659)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yep. And that’s something that we are committed to. We’re not going to be selling people’s All right. Well, that’s all I had for today. Open and close. I hope so. I hope so. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then.
Tessa Murry (46:29.273)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Wow. Well, close the chapter on that one. Spectorigate, open and closed, sounds like, for StructureTech. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For now, anyways. Have they asked you to be on their home inspector board of advisors so they don’t make any more mistakes? Okay.
Reuben Saltzman (46:50.411)
They have not they have not although I’ll tell you what the the reason I did hear about this was because our show sponsor I’m giving them a plug at the end here IEB inspector Empire builder. We did an all community call earlier this week just to talk about it the CEO at IEB Mark Hummel had had a long conversation with
the new CEO over at Spectora, Peter somebody, I can’t remember his name, but he shared, like, you he started the conversation with by saying, look, Peter wanted me to tell all you guys that was the dumbest rule out they could have possibly done. And I mean, just how incredibly sorry he is about the whole thing. And they are forming an advisory board.
And they’re going to be doing this and this and this. mean, they really are going to be having a board now. And it was really good just hearing from a bunch of other owners at IEB talking about what your mindset is going to be. And Mark talked a lot about not feeding into this feeding frenzy and just advising home inspectors. Don’t get involved in this feeding frenzy. Don’t go losing your minds.
Tessa Murry (48:07.483)
Mm.
Reuben Saltzman (48:13.749)
over something like this, be calm, clear headed and think about how, what’s, well, not stop. That was a lot of advice that I really appreciated that. And that’s, that’s really a lot of the IEB mindset is to not be that crazy person. Try to be a little bit more level headed. And if you’re interested in learning more about the IEB community, I will have a link to our sponsor in the show notes.
Tessa Murry (48:19.249)
Be like Ruben.
Tessa Murry (48:26.607)
Yeah, no. Yeah. Yeah.
Tessa Murry (48:43.811)
Okay, nice.
Reuben Saltzman (48:44.257)
So that’s my commercial for them. And I think that that’s a podcast that should wrap it up.
Tessa Murry (48:49.873)
Yeah, we thought we didn’t have much to talk about and here we are, 48 minutes later.
Reuben Saltzman (48:53.227)
We got stuff to talk about. Any closing thoughts for today, Tess?
Tessa Murry (48:59.927)
I don’t think so. It’s just, good to see you, Reuben. It’s good to catch up and thanks for sharing kind of your what’s, what’s been happening and what you’re doing and yeah. Thank you.
Reuben Saltzman (49:09.813)
Certainly. Good to catch up with you. yeah, and we should have a bunch of shows coming up. I think we’ll both be around for a while.
Tessa Murry (49:20.013)
Yeah, I think so. think so. The next couple weeks with traveling, I can’t remember if I have updated my calendar yet. I’ll check on that. But coming this summer, things should be slowing down for me a little bit and I’ll be around all summer. And so we’ll make some good podcasts if you’re around.
Reuben Saltzman (49:26.821)
don’t know…
Reuben Saltzman (49:34.573)
Cool. That sounds good. for any of our listeners, if you got any thoughts, questions, I mean, you got a different viewpoint, you are welcome to email me and I’d be happy to read it on another podcast. mean, maybe there’s a part of this whole thing that I’m missing and maybe I’m being, I don’t know, just naive about it. Share your thoughts with me. Love to hear it. You can reach us by emailing podcast at structuretech.com.
and we will catch you next time. Take care.
Tessa Murry (50:07.771)
Thanks for listening.