Click this link to learn more about the Business Mastery Class for Solo Inspectors:
https://events.iebcoaching.com/BusinessMasteryforSoloInspectors25
In this episode, Reuben Saltzman and Tessa Murry discuss the challenges and experiences of home inspection with Miki Mertz, a pioneer female home inspector. They explore the unique advantages and challenges faced by women in the industry, the importance of communication skills, and the transition from teaching to home inspection. Miki shares her accidental journey into the profession, her business in Kansas City, and the lack of regulations in the home inspection industry. The conversation also touches on the significance of inspecting new constructions and the evolving standards set by insurance companies. They also discuss the intricacies of home inspections, focusing on the importance of understanding building codes, the challenges of new construction quality, and the implications of mold and indoor air quality on health. They emphasize the need for home inspectors to educate clients about potential issues and the importance of viewing a house as a system. The discussion also touches on the competitive housing market and the challenges faced by first-time home buyers, as well as advice for aspiring home inspectors.
Here’s the link to check Inspector Empire Builder: https://www.iebcoaching.com.
You can find Miki at https://www.completehomeinspectionkc.com.
Takeaways
Miki Mertz has been a home inspector for over 30 years.
Women in home inspection still represent a small percentage of the industry.
Communication skills are crucial for home inspectors to convey information effectively.
Miki transitioned from being a high school band director to a home inspector.
Miki’s entry into home inspection was largely accidental.
Complete Home Inspection is Miki’s business, which is located in Kansas City.
There are no regulations for home inspectors in Missouri or Kansas.
New constructions should still be inspected despite city regulations.
Miki enjoys inspecting mid-century homes due to their unique characteristics. Home inspectors should educate clients on the condition of their homes.
Understanding building codes is crucial for effective inspections.
Mold issues often stem from underlying water problems.
Indoor air quality is a significant concern for homeowners.
Crawl spaces can greatly impact a home’s overall health.
New construction quality can vary significantly between builders.
Home inspectors must navigate the competitive housing market carefully.
First-time home buyers often face unexpected repair costs.
Continuous education is vital for home inspectors.
Viewing a house as a system is essential for effective inspections.
Chapters
01:01 Introduction to Home Inspection and Guest
02:25 Miki Mertz: A Pioneer in Home Inspection
03:52 Challenges and Advantages of Being a Female Inspector
06:49 The Importance of Communication in Home Inspections
09:39 Transition from Teaching to Home Inspection
12:57 Accidental Career Path into Home Inspection
14:41 Miki’s Business and Location
15:40 Regulations and Challenges in Home Inspection
19:01 The Importance of Inspecting New Construction
24:06 Insurance Requirements and Home Inspection Standards
27:03 Understanding Home Inspections and Insurance
28:42 The Importance of Building Codes
30:09 Discrepancies in New Construction Quality
32:10 Mold and Indoor Air Quality Concerns
39:21 Health Impacts of Home Environment
43:05 Crawl Spaces and Building Science
51:01 Navigating the Competitive Housing Market
52:30 Advice for Future Home Inspector
TRANSCRIPTION
The following is an AI-generated transcription from an audio recording. Although the transcription is mostly accurate, it will contain some errors due to inaudible passages or transcription errors.
Reuben Saltzman: Welcome to my house. Welcome to the Structure Talk podcast, a production of Structure Tech Home Inspections. My name is Reuben Saltzman. I’m your host alongside building science geek, Tessa Murry. We help home inspectors up their game through education, and we help homeowners to be better stewards of their houses. We’ve been keeping it real on this podcast since 2019, and we are also the number one home inspection podcast in the world, according to my mom.
Reuben Saltzman (00:01.014)
Welcome back to the show. is officially winter throughout the country at the time we’re recording this. The entire country is getting a little taste of Minnesota. We have shared our love with the whole country. is cold everywhere right now. Yep.
Tessa Murry (00:07.326)
Yeah. Yes, it is.
Tessa Murry (00:16.096)
You’re welcome. No, even like Southern Florida and like Louisiana and all these places that never have snow are seeing snow or winter weather or frost advisories. So it’s pretty crazy.
Reuben Saltzman (00:31.32)
Yeah. Yeah. It’s been happening everywhere. Tessa and I here in Minnesota, we just got done seeing like, like negative 28, negative 30 without the wind chill. I mean, it was cold here when it’s cold in Florida. It’s, probably really cold here. So that that’s been fun. we’ve got an awesome guest on someone I’ve known for a long time, but you know what? Before I bring on our guest, I’m gonna, I’m gonna give a shout out to our show sponsors, IEB.
Tessa Murry (00:43.552)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (00:49.55)
Yeah. Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (01:01.198)
And a little plug for something that they’ve going on. This is really geared for solo inspectors. If you are a one person shop, they’ve got something coming up. This is on Tuesday, February 28th. And this is called a business mastery class for solo inspectors. And it’s going from 9 a.m. to 1 p.m. Central Time. It’s a four hour class. It’s going to be led by the IEB
CEO, Mark Hummel, awesome dude, loves spending time with him, as well as Chris Cochran, who is one of the coaches there at IEB. And they’re going to be talking about tools, strategies, and all different stuff to take your business to the next level as a solopreneur. Is that, I think that’s a word. Solopreneur.
Tessa Murry (01:50.624)
Solopreneur. if I’m sure it probably isn’t if not you just made a new word
Reuben Saltzman (01:57.004)
Yeah, yeah. And I’ve got a lot to talk about here. I’m not gonna not gonna read through all these bullet points or take me forever, but I will put a link in our show notes where you can learn more about this. So there’s a plug. We love IEB. We appreciate their sponsorship of the show and we are big, big supporters. But okay. Getting back to our topic. Yes, getting back to our topic. We we have been.
Tessa Murry (02:20.0)
Who’s our special guest? Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (02:25.184)
interviewing home inspectors all over the country. And today we’ve got a longtime home inspector. She has been at this for 33 years. Delighted to bring on Miki Mertz. Miki, welcome to the show. How you doing today?
Miki Mertz (02:40.994)
Hi, thanks for having me on. This will be fun.
Tessa Murry (02:41.578)
Yes. Welcome, Miki. We were just discussing. Yeah, we were just discussing before we started recording. Miki, you’ve been in this industry for a long time, and you were one of the first women to become a professional home inspector, I guess. How have we not had you on this show?
Miki Mertz (03:00.962)
I’ve been busy.
Reuben Saltzman (03:04.024)
She’s been busy.
Tessa Murry (03:04.382)
So were you one of the first women in this industry, Miki, when you started going to… Yeah.
Miki Mertz (03:08.322)
I believe I was. I became a certified ASHE member in 92, 93. At that time, there were fewer than 10 women who were certified home inspectors. I think a lot of it’s because historically, people enter home inspection as a business from the other trades.
And the trades don’t have a lot of women in them either. So it was just kind of a natural occurring thing. There’s more women in all of the various associations as home inspectors now, but it were still kind of rare, as you know, Tessa.
Reuben Saltzman (03:37.282)
Yeah. No.
Tessa Murry (03:37.416)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Tessa Murry (03:52.512)
Mm-hmm. Yep, I wonder what the percentage is nowadays do we Ruben or Miki? Do you guys either know do you know roughly kind of what percentage? Women about five you’re holding up your hand five percent of home inspectors Okay
Reuben Saltzman (03:52.621)
Yes.
Miki Mertz (04:03.234)
but do this.
I didn’t know if he was raising his hand or saying five.
Reuben Saltzman (04:07.555)
Yeah.
Yeah, I just realized that that’s a hand raise and the number five, but the numbers I’ve heard last time I was looking into it is around 5%. Is that about what you’ve heard, Miki?
Tessa Murry (04:14.368)
Yeah.
Miki Mertz (04:19.36)
Yeah, I would agree. And it may even be less than that. And there really isn’t any reason. A female can do the home inspection stuff just like the guys can and need the same set of credentials. You got to have the brain that can think of everything that’s involved in houses. You’ve got to have the diagnostic skills to figure out what’s going on.
Tessa Murry (04:20.426)
room.
Miki Mertz (04:49.314)
I guess early on the question that people ask me a lot kind of shows what they’re thinking. say, ooh, do you go in crawl spaces? I said, well, of course I do. And I explained to them, said, men don’t like crawl spaces either. They’re just not socially accepted to whine about it like girls do.
Tessa Murry (05:00.519)
Mm-hmm.
Tessa Murry (05:11.36)
you
Miki Mertz (05:13.211)
So if you can get over the creepy gross dark yucky stuff down there then yeah you can be a home inspector.
Reuben Saltzman (05:20.076)
Yeah, yeah, well put.
Tessa Murry (05:22.602)
Well, and you would say that I’ve even heard you talk about it too, Miki, before. You’d say that there’s even been some benefits to you being a woman in the industry. And what would you say that those advantages are or have been for you in your career?
Miki Mertz (05:35.426)
A lot of people like to think that women can communicate better or explain stuff better. I don’t know if that’s necessarily true because I’ve been to a lot of classes that Rubin’s given and he explains stuff really well. But I think one of the things that I found helpful to me early on is I’m not very scary. And so when I’m with my buyers or real estate agents or the sellers,
when I point a defect out or explain it to them, they usually don’t get too defensive or feel threatened about it because I’m not a very scary person. you know, a lot of other times if a great big 300 pound home inspector guy is doing the same thing, he might come across as more gruff, more frightening and make the whole situation a little scarier, even without intending to just because that’s the physical nature of that particular person.
Reuben Saltzman (06:30.04)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (06:30.133)
Mm-hmm.
Reuben Saltzman (06:34.9)
I can totally see that.
Tessa Murry (06:35.236)
So can I ask, can I ask you Miki, has your appearance ever worked against you? Like have you ever had challenges with people taking you seriously or thinking you couldn’t do the job because of your size or your gender?
Miki Mertz (06:35.244)
So, yeah.
Miki Mertz (06:49.431)
I had one person who, when they opened the door, they were in the house before I was, was an 85-year-old woman. And she said, honey, you can’t possibly know as much as the men know. And I did not get offended because I had to put her in perspective of the generation she grew up in and what she understood women’s role in society to be. I said, tell you what.
Tessa Murry (07:13.844)
Yeah.
Right?
Miki Mertz (07:18.688)
You follow me around for five minutes and if you don’t think I know what I’m doing, I’ll go home and I won’t charge you anything. So in five minutes, she said, I guess you do know your stuff. You can stay.
Tessa Murry (07:27.24)
Wow.
to
Reuben Saltzman (07:33.612)
That’s all it took me to convince her. that’s fantastic.
Tessa Murry (07:33.98)
Yeah.
Miki Mertz (07:36.126)
I just, had to, you know, and you just have to know what you’re doing and convey that without coming across as being arrogant, of course. I just like to explain stuff when I’m going through.
Tessa Murry (07:44.82)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (07:49.888)
Yeah. Yeah. think you’re confident so people hear that in you and see that in you and it allows them to trust you and you know your stuff. You’ve been doing this for such a long time. I’m sure that there are people that show up and are, if they haven’t heard of you in your neck of the woods, they’re like, oh, interesting. A woman home inspector. I’m sure you get that a lot too. Yeah. Yep. And that helps business, I think.
Miki Mertz (07:57.698)
Thank you.
Miki Mertz (08:14.434)
I do. Sure, it can. I think that the other thing you mentioned, my size, I’m not very tall. I’m not very big. I can get into some really small spaces to go inspect them. So I think that can be an advantage as well.
Tessa Murry (08:20.255)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (08:28.042)
Thank
Tessa Murry (08:34.214)
Yeah, definitely. Yeah, you’re going in places that other home inspectors cannot get into small attics, tiny crawl spaces. Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (08:36.152)
Yes.
Miki Mertz (08:42.154)
Yeah, I think another previous history thing, I know nothing about houses when I was growing up. You I did not come from the trades. Closest I came was helping hold my dad’s tools when he was doing projects. And my main responsibility was give it to him when he asks and close my ears for all the foul language that naturally happens when dads are working on stuff.
Reuben Saltzman (09:07.278)
You
Tessa Murry (09:08.469)
Ha
Miki Mertz (09:09.73)
So I didn’t know that much about homes when I first became a home inspector because I was a teacher. I was a high school band director. And that’s not a natural transition to being a home inspector. But being a teacher, being a teacher is for me because now I say I teach people about their house. And that’s a very important part of what I do.
Tessa Murry (09:18.517)
Hmm.
Reuben Saltzman (09:29.783)
Yes.
Tessa Murry (09:34.175)
Yeah.
Miki Mertz (09:39.058)
As a home inspector, have a set of responsibilities. I’ve got to identify what’s there, obviously. But I have to convey that knowledge in such a way that the client is going to understand what in the world I’m talking about. And I think my teaching experience really helped. I try not to talk from like their seventh graders, but that does sometimes come in handy.
Tessa Murry (09:57.088)
Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (10:02.35)
But the goal is to write a report. We always say, I mean, you should write a report as though it were being read by a seventh or eighth grader. You need to write it at that level. And that is a very well-written report if someone can understand what you’re talking about.
Tessa Murry (10:02.462)
Hahaha!
Miki Mertz (10:11.52)
Yeah, exactly.
Miki Mertz (10:19.904)
I think I found that the longer I did this, the fewer calls I was getting for, can you explain this on the phone to me? And I think what that told me is I now was maybe being better able to put it all into words in the report so that they understood it and didn’t need to clarify it on the phone.
Tessa Murry (10:28.042)
Mm-hmm.
Reuben Saltzman (10:39.244)
Yeah, and I mean, I remember it was, gosh, it was probably 10 years ago now. I don’t remember how long ago it was, but you came out and you taught a seminar for our local group of home inspectors on report writing about just.
Tessa Murry (10:39.626)
Yeah.
Miki Mertz (10:54.306)
Yeah, it was probably closer to 15 or 20 years ago. I know.
Reuben Saltzman (10:57.358)
Oh my goodness, where did the time go? Yeah, but because I had sat through your class on clear report writing, I was like, she ought to come teach here in Minnesota. So you came over and taught for us. Huh?
Miki Mertz (11:07.84)
That was fun. was glad you asked. Thank you for asking me to do that. That was fun.
Tessa Murry (11:08.224)
Hmm.
Reuben Saltzman (11:13.952)
yeah, yeah, it was. And, and you know, it was, was a great class just on the importance of use clear language, use words that people understand. And, I’m going to butcher it. So, but there, there’s just one example I still remember you used about explaining the importance of a combustion air intake. How did you, how did you say, here’s how a home inspector might write it up and here’s how you should write it up? What was your example, Miki? Are you going to remember?
Miki Mertz (11:38.428)
yeah, was talking about, yeah, the byproducts of combustion. If you start the sentence with that, you’ve already lost them. If you talk about secondary combustion, makeup air is necessary to avoid the, that’s how people do it. So I, the way that mine is now presented in my report is furnaces need extra air in order to burn and draft properly and exhaust properly.
And then here’s a way to do that by putting vents through the wall or intake air or any of those kinds of things. If you don’t have enough air, the furnace will suffocate and start making carbon monoxide. And if you keep it simple like that, people understand the importance of it. And you don’t have to use a lot of the four syllable words to get your point across. Thank you. I appreciate you remembering that. That isn’t exactly how I said it when I presented it, but yeah.
Tessa Murry (12:14.89)
Mm-hmm.
Reuben Saltzman (12:31.276)
Yes, yes.
Tessa Murry (12:31.488)
Great point.
Reuben Saltzman (12:37.868)
Well, I wouldn’t be able to say it either, but we get the point. Use words people understand.
Tessa Murry (12:41.812)
Plain English. Yeah, plain English. Going back, I just want to ask you, Miki, how did you decide to get into home inspection then? If you came from a background as a teacher and for band, for music, how the heck did you decide to become a home inspector?
Miki Mertz (12:57.282)
Mostly by accident. I was moving to a different city and at that time there were no band directing positions for me so I applied for temporary jobs. A man was looking for someone to run his office and maybe someone he could train for future home inspection.
Tessa Murry (13:00.064)
you
Miki Mertz (13:21.41)
So I started working for him and started reading everything. He just put piles of books on my desk when I wasn’t answering the phone and stuff. he read this, learn about this. And then he started sending me to seminars so that I could learn more. So after a year of working for him, I’d already taken the exams that were necessary at that time. Shortly after that, he was diagnosed with terminal cancer and stopped.
So I’d already gotten hooked into doing home inspections and opened up my own company. So I worked for him for a year and it’s been mine ever since.
Tessa Murry (13:50.11)
Hmm.
Tessa Murry (13:55.203)
my gosh.
Tessa Murry (13:59.334)
Wow. So it just happened to it was fate. It was like you were looking for a job. This guy was hiring. You didn’t know anything about home inspections, but you just went in there open minded and you just soaked up all that knowledge like a sponge. That’s amazing. Wow. And here you are 30 some years later still doing it and it looks like, you know, loving it.
Miki Mertz (14:02.495)
It was great.
Mm-hmm. Nothing at all.
Miki Mertz (14:11.137)
Yeah.
Miki Mertz (14:16.769)
Can’t get rid of me that easy. I’ll retire eventually, but I’m still having fun.
Tessa Murry (14:25.088)
Why quit if it’s something that you enjoy and you’re good at? Yeah. Well, this is interesting. So, tell our listeners where you’re located and what your business name is.
Reuben Saltzman (14:25.676)
Yeah, yeah.
Miki Mertz (14:28.778)
Yeah. Well, thank you.
Miki Mertz (14:41.418)
Okay, my company’s called Complete Home Inspection, and I’m in the Kansas City area. So I work both Kansas City, Missouri, Kansas City, Kansas, and all of the surrounding small towns within the outskirts of that. The greater Kansas City metropolitan area has over two million people. Lots and lots of different small towns that are all attached.
in addition to the two big Kansas cities.
Tessa Murry (15:11.006)
Yeah.
Okay.
Reuben Saltzman (15:13.706)
And I got to say, we recently had a guest on in our regional inspection thing. We had somebody from the same area, like your neighbor, Brian Stanley. And the reason we’re having you both on. Yeah. Hey, Brian. Nice job. The reason we’re having you both on is because I don’t have my stuff together and I invited both of you. That’s really all I came down to.
Miki Mertz (15:23.744)
Yeah. Hi, Brian.
Tessa Murry (15:24.458)
Shout out to Brian.
Miki Mertz (15:28.865)
Hahaha!
Tessa Murry (15:34.3)
Good night.
Miki Mertz (15:35.298)
That’s quite alright.
Reuben Saltzman (15:39.406)
Nothing complicated.
Tessa Murry (15:40.198)
It’s great. We get two different perspectives. We get two different perspectives. And Miki, you said you were able to kind of listen to that show in preparation for this one. So I’m curious to hear kind of your thoughts on any similarities or differences that you experienced from from Brian’s description. My key takeaway that shocked me was that you guys don’t have like any regulations for either home inspectors or for like builders, contractors. And so it just seems like it’s the wild, wild west out there.
Miki Mertz (16:09.28)
Yeah, I got to kick out of you guys coining that phrase. On the one hand, nobody being regulated, it’s just kind of old fashioned in terms of trust and let’s hope everybody did a good job, did what they’re supposed to do. But in reality, we know that’s going to be a problem. Neither state, Missouri or Kansas, have any regulations for home inspectors.
Tessa Murry (16:09.556)
Is that your experience? Yeah.
Ha ha.
Tessa Murry (16:31.968)
Mm-hmm.
Miki Mertz (16:39.052)
Kansas did for a few years and then when it came up for renewal, the governor who was opposed to any kind of regulations just said, no, we don’t need that, go away. Which, you know, that’s in a way it’s kind of sad for consumer protection, but he just said, well, Missouri doesn’t have it and we don’t need it here either.
Tessa Murry (16:50.176)
Mm-hmm. Come on.
Reuben Saltzman (17:05.122)
Hmm. Okay.
Miki Mertz (17:06.978)
So there’s no home inspector regulation. In terms of building codes, they’re just all across the board. There is not one unified code for the states, for the individual cities to all be together. Each state can do their own thing. Each city can do their own thing. They can adapt their own when they’re going to apply which building code.
And again, that’s kind of pluses and minuses. You never know which code applies because there’s just so many to choose from and so many different time periods. know, somebody might be looking at the 18, somebody’s still back in the mid 2000s. You know, it’s just, so codes and lack thereof can be a problem.
Tessa Murry (17:46.487)
man.
Tessa Murry (17:56.723)
my gosh. That’s crazy.
Miki Mertz (18:02.795)
But newer construction is starting to follow a little bit more regulation in what I’ve seen. A little bit more consistency on how things are done. As all city code officials are not enough and overworked, things can still fall between the cracks and not get caught. And that’s why when people still ask, well, should new houses be inspected? Yeah. That’s one more set of eyes to…
Tessa Murry (18:13.568)
Thank
Tessa Murry (18:22.324)
Mm-hmm.
Tessa Murry (18:29.704)
Yes.
Miki Mertz (18:31.734)
to find what was missed. And I heard Brian mentioning one of my favorites that happened in new construction too, that the flue pipe came through the roof and it came up through the attic floor and there was nothing in between. And it happened to me too. So it’s just amazing. I that. You know, so yeah, new houses should still be inspected. I don’t have
Tessa Murry (18:49.588)
We call that a Bluetooth, Bluetooth chimney.
Tessa Murry (18:57.738)
home.
Miki Mertz (19:01.45)
too many new inspections that I’m doing. Most of mine are on existing homes.
Reuben Saltzman (19:08.27)
Okay. Why do you think that is? Is just because a lot of people just don’t get new houses inspected because they assume it’s going to be perfect?
Miki Mertz (19:10.658)
There’s more of them.
Miki Mertz (19:15.86)
I think that has a lot to do with it. They think that there’s been the city inspectors and the building, forming inspections and all that. So I just not getting as many calls on new construction. then they also feel that, well, I’ve got my 11 months walkthrough inspection. I sometimes get called back to do those. And then that’s the real bad ones. When you discovered that a whole section of the attic has no installation in it. It’s like,
you could have benefited from better insulation and energy rating had you had the insulation in that section for the whole past year. But yeah, most of mine are existing houses from made in 1900 all the way up to now.
Reuben Saltzman (19:53.72)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (19:56.297)
No kidding.
Tessa Murry (20:04.318)
Wow. Okay. What’s your favorite type of house to inspect, Miki?
Miki Mertz (20:09.046)
I kind of like the mid-century, know, 50s, 60s. Just because I, because those also for me tend to fit in a smaller package. It’s the, they made a lot of post-war houses, a lot of, they’re not low income houses, but they’re starter homes.
Tessa Murry (20:17.408)
Why is that? Yeah.
Miki Mertz (20:36.146)
And so the, one of the joys I have about doing those is it’s somebody’s first house. How exciting, what a great time for them. But they’re also the ones that can be hurt the most by huge financial problems that, you know, you get a money pit of a house. So I kind of like those. They’re, they’re, they’re fun to do. I really get a kick out of the ones that were made in the 1920s too.
Tessa Murry (20:36.256)
Okay.
Tessa Murry (20:54.08)
Yeah.
Miki Mertz (21:05.12)
because those are very interesting homes.
Tessa Murry (21:09.396)
Say more. Say more. What makes them interesting? 1920s.
Miki Mertz (21:15.106)
The house has moved around a lot. The house has had a lot of changes. People adding things to them, taking out things, upgrading, modernizing, doing things wrong. It’s like, why is this room doing that? You have to be a good detective after a while to figure some of these things out of, well,
Tessa Murry (21:33.114)
Yep.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Miki Mertz (21:43.276)
How was it built and why did it do that after the fact? Is this normal? Is it going to keep doing it? So old houses take a little longer to do and they require a lot more attention to unusual details.
Tessa Murry (21:47.315)
Yeah.
Right.
Tessa Murry (21:59.296)
Well said. yeah, that’s the same no matter where you live, I think, as a home inspector. Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (21:59.596)
Now, do you, do no, I got a curious one.
Yeah, when you’re charging, do you charge more for older houses?
Miki Mertz (22:10.88)
don’t, I should, I could, but…
Reuben Saltzman (22:12.556)
You should. We’re not shooting on you, Miki. We’re not shooting on you, but you should. OK.
Tessa Murry (22:13.822)
You should. After this show, up your rates, You’re worth more.
Miki Mertz (22:17.217)
I have to change my race.
Okay, okay.
In the city of Leavenworth, which is the oldest city in Kansas, I’ve still got some things that go back to the 1880s, 1850s. And those are also very interesting to examine. I mean, some of those houses didn’t have indoor plumbing when they were built. So how did that change over the years?
Tessa Murry (22:34.068)
Mm. Wow.
Reuben Saltzman (22:41.175)
Okay.
Tessa Murry (22:41.39)
I bet.
That’s right.
Tessa Murry (22:48.062)
Wow. Do those houses have basements or are they crawl spaces or are they holes in the floor? What do you see?
Miki Mertz (22:54.606)
All kinds of things. When built, most of them were crawl spaces. So stone foundations with two foot or short, more shallow kind of a crawl space. Then they started going with basements. Some of the houses started off as a crawl space and then got dug down. if
Tessa Murry (23:01.152)
Okay.
Reuben Saltzman (23:02.648)
Thank
Tessa Murry (23:10.687)
Miki Mertz (23:22.006)
hopefully properly reinforced to create a tall enough basement so that they could put heating equipment in and other storage space. But those old houses either were more like cellars or crawl spaces rather than full basements.
Tessa Murry (23:27.284)
Mm.
Tessa Murry (23:31.913)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (23:39.328)
Hmm. Do, so we’ve been talking to a lot of people in certain locations, like I’m thinking Florida, for example, that the insurance companies are requiring, you know, four point inspections, or they just have really strict standards for what’s acceptable in order to be approved for home insurance. And
they are kind of driving the market to basically update major systems in houses that in our opinion, seeing houses that are 100 plus years old that have like original plumbing, we’re like, if it’s a 1950s house, it’s quote new, you know, but like in places like Florida, you know, if a system is like 20, 30 years old, it’s like, good luck, you know, at least this is my
kind of my understanding of it. So they’ve got houses that are 1950s and it’s like, well, the plumbing system is older, the electrical system is older, and you might have to replace the whole thing. Is that happening where you are? Or are seeing houses that have galvanized steel piping or stuff that’s older not that big of a deal?
Miki Mertz (24:50.946)
What I’m seeing with the insurance industry, there’s a few things creeping in that is starting to be driven by the insurance companies. The age of a roof is really becoming more of a concern. In the Kansas City area, I don’t know if it’s a nationwide problem or just here, we have a lot of hail damage, a lot of hail storms.
Tessa Murry (25:04.308)
Mm-hmm.
Reuben Saltzman (25:05.645)
Hmm
Tessa Murry (25:17.364)
Yeah.
Miki Mertz (25:18.082)
You know, the occasional tornado, but mostly it’s the damage that we get from storms is hail related. I think the insurance companies just took too big of a hit and had too many roofs that they needed to replace that they’re starting to crack down on. I’m not even going to write a policy if the roof is older than 15 and 15 is like the magic number, which just kills me because when we get an asphalt shingle roof that’s rated for 30 years.
Reuben Saltzman (25:18.37)
Yep.
Reuben Saltzman (25:38.188)
Okay, sure.
Tessa Murry (25:38.29)
Okay, yeah.
Thanks.
Tessa Murry (25:47.817)
Yeah.
Miki Mertz (25:48.034)
Here it probably could. Most of them are going to go 25. So 15 just kind of annoys me that the insurance company, some of them, won’t write a policy on the house because it’s a 15-year-old roof.
Reuben Saltzman (26:03.138)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and it’s like, okay, no, no, what are we doing? We’re taking a roof that’s at its half life. And we’re saying we got to tear the whole thing off, put it in a landfill, spend all this money. For what? What a horrible waste. Why not just charge a little bit more? And say, Look, we know that we’re increasing our risk. So we’re going to cover our butts and charge what we need to charge. But just to say we’re not going to write a policy. You’re forcing people to
Tessa Murry (26:03.934)
I’m lost. I’m lost.
Miki Mertz (26:14.005)
in the landfill.
Tessa Murry (26:15.412)
Right.
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (26:22.388)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (26:31.326)
Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (26:32.886)
replace stuff that doesn’t need to be replaced. Yeah. Yep.
Tessa Murry (26:34.336)
It’s wasteful.
Miki Mertz (26:35.618)
Yeah. Regarding the other systems in the house, knob and tube wiring is something the insurance companies have been jumping on for a long time. 60 amp service, these are things that those kind of make sense from a future fire and health safety standard to make those upgraded. But the plumbing,
Reuben Saltzman (26:47.308)
Mm-hmm.
Tessa Murry (26:47.594)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (26:58.776)
Agreed.
Tessa Murry (26:58.834)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Miki Mertz (27:04.8)
haven’t really seen them getting too fussy about it. They want to know about it, if it’s got cast iron, if it’s got galvanized, if it’s got on their drains. But mostly they just want to know the overall condition and maybe percentage of things that have been upgraded.
Tessa Murry (27:09.28)
Hmm.
Tessa Murry (27:13.12)
Sure.
Tessa Murry (27:21.414)
Okay, interesting. So are you doing inspections for insurance companies at all at this point or have you been requested to do that? Okay.
Miki Mertz (27:27.828)
I’m not. No, no, I haven’t been. I’ve sometimes been called by insurance companies after having done an inspection and they just want some clarification for their records. And I get a little concerned about that because I don’t want them to start making financial decisions for my client based on my report. I’d rather have my client make those decisions.
Tessa Murry (27:49.758)
Right.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that’s a tough spot to put the home inspector in. If they’re asking you more specific questions that may not be in your report and you’re telling them something and then that ends up denying the coverage for your client, that’s, yeah, that’s difficult.
Miki Mertz (28:03.394)
Yeah.
Exactly.
Miki Mertz (28:12.224)
Yeah, to get back to the whole code thing, I never have done an inspection that was code rated or referred to it. I think it’s important for all home inspectors to be familiar with the code so that we have a general understanding of how things are supposed to be. And if it comes right down to it, can refer to, well, this is why it’s wrong. This is how it should have been done.
Tessa Murry (28:32.938)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (28:40.957)
Right.
Miki Mertz (28:42.486)
But there’s always the time factor then of, well, when would it have been required to do this, that, or the other thing in a house? So I find myself saying to my customer, because I think the most important thing I can do for them is to educate them on what they’re buying, help them understand their house, help them figure out what they’re going to do about it. I find that I say the phrase, if this house was built today, it would have been
For instance, example is in our area, we used to leave garage framing open without insulating it and without sheet rocking it. It was just open to the living space above, especially like a garage on the main level and bedrooms up above. It was very common to just have it open with no fire separation wall.
Tessa Murry (29:11.786)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Reuben Saltzman (29:12.076)
That’s a good way to put it.
Miki Mertz (29:40.212)
At the time the house was built, that was totally acceptable and up to the codes of the time. But I want my people to know that there’s a much better way to do it now that will increase the safety of the house and the energy efficiency. You don’t want your garage cold air always making the rest of the house cold. You don’t want the fire potential spreading. So I will say if this house was built today, it would have had, consider upgrading to that.
Tessa Murry (29:44.672)
Thank
Tessa Murry (29:51.658)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (29:59.072)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (30:09.448)
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Would you say that you see a big discrepancy in like, I know you’re doing more existing home inspections, but if you are doing new construction inspections, because there aren’t codes or enforcements of that happening, or it varies city by city, do you inspect some new construction that are just appallingly bad, and then others across the street will be great? Is the quality…
Reuben Saltzman (30:10.423)
Yeah.
Miki Mertz (30:20.492)
Mm-hmm.
Miki Mertz (30:37.678)
Yeah, most of the most of the differences I see are more subtle. But yeah, there will be differences like one builder is making sure that they’re installing the installation on the inside of a foundation basement, full basement. And the other builder isn’t because who’s going to make him. Some builders are complying with
Tessa Murry (30:38.708)
Suffer?
Tessa Murry (31:01.504)
Mm-hmm.
Miki Mertz (31:05.666)
the passive radon mitigation installations and others are going, I don’t have to do that. I’m not doing it. I mean, we can even carry that into electric things of arc fault protection. Unless it’s in the specific code, it’s not going to happen.
Tessa Murry (31:13.056)
wow.
Reuben Saltzman (31:13.07)
Hmm.
Tessa Murry (31:24.682)
Wow. Wow. That’s just kind of mind blowing because, you know, Minnesota is regulated. We do have, you know, codes that are adopted and we’ve got city officials that are enforcing it. And even with that, we still find things that slip through the cracks like you mentioned. But at least when you walk into a house that’s built today, you kind of know what to expect or what it should be. So it makes those things that get missed stand out and it makes it, you know, easier for the client to be able to advocate, you know, for themselves of what it should be.
Miki Mertz (31:39.013)
yeah.
Miki Mertz (31:44.994)
Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (31:45.326)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (31:54.694)
but I think it’s even more important in places like where you are that don’t have the regulation that, you know, you really do get a good home inspection and you do your research and you know, the builder and quality that they’re building. it’s just, yeah, it’s a different world.
Miki Mertz (32:10.312)
I think most of what I see in the new construction is in the city properties, so they are having more consistency. Where you really see the discrepancies is when you go out into the county that’s unregulated.
Tessa Murry (32:19.978)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (32:24.42)
Yeah, okay. Yep. Yeah. Yeah.
Miki Mertz (32:27.023)
Then you get back to the Wild West things. The cities are enforcing the newer stuff out in the county. They just kind of throw their hands up. We don’t have to do worry about that.
Tessa Murry (32:37.096)
Yeah. Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (32:38.434)
Yeah, we get we get a lot. We get a lot of that here in the Twin Cities, too. I mean, once you’re in the metro area, you kind of know what to expect. You drive an hour or two away and things really start to change. Yeah.
Tessa Murry (32:50.49)
It’s different. Yeah, it’s different. It is. Yeah. I’m curious, Miki, do you do any sort of like mold testing or do you talk to your clients about things that are indoor air quality concerns, things like pollutants or health and safety things? You know, as an ASHE certified home inspector, there’s certain things that we’re required to report on and not required to report on and some of those are environmental.
potential environmental hazards. Do you have you found through your years of doing this that that’s something that is important for you to talk to the client about and educate them on or do you just avoid that topic completely?
Miki Mertz (33:19.308)
Mm-hmm.
Miki Mertz (33:30.934)
I know a lot of people treat mold like a four-letter word. If I see a black growth on the wall, I don’t hesitate to call it mold because it probably is. And we’ll talk about it, that how did this happen? And that mold is gonna be formed when you have a water problem, which is something I’m supposed to be looking for anyway, whether it came in from the basement wall, whether it came in from a leaky pipe, excess humidity.
Tessa Murry (33:34.698)
Mm-hmm.
Miki Mertz (33:59.49)
any of the reasons that mold forms. I do have the capability of testing for mold. I have done it. I’m just not doing it very much anymore. I don’t know why. However, when I see mold, I’m going to recommend they do something about it. And the interesting thing is when I see mold for whatever source it is, I say this needs to be
Tessa Murry (34:19.477)
Yeah.
Miki Mertz (34:29.588)
addressed. And they said, well, should we get a mold test? And I said, no, they’re going to tell you you have your mold. I am already telling you you have mold, unless you have a reason to know if it’s stacky botrys or whatever the big word for the name of the mold is. said, it needs to be corrected. I don’t care what kind it is, just fix the mold. And I said, and more importantly, fix how it happened. Otherwise, you’re going to clean up this spot on the wall.
Tessa Murry (34:41.929)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (34:45.886)
Mm-hmm.
Reuben Saltzman (34:53.452)
Yes.
Tessa Murry (34:53.948)
Yeah.
Miki Mertz (34:56.67)
and it’s going to come back because you didn’t address the problem that was causing it. Right. It’s like hitting yourself in the head and telling the doctor you have a headache and he gives you some aspirin for it. If you don’t stop hitting yourself in the head, the problem’s not going away. So yeah, mold is something that we’re always going to talk about. If I see it, I’m going to address it in terms of making sure somebody does something about it.
Reuben Saltzman (35:00.832)
You’re treating the symptoms. Yeah.
Tessa Murry (35:03.325)
sure
Tessa Murry (35:09.216)
You
Tessa Murry (35:13.492)
Yes.
Miki Mertz (35:24.994)
People that are highly sensitive to mold, they’re the ones that usually want to test. If they have asthma or other breathing issues, they want to get it tested. And then we’ll be doing a screening test so that they can get at least a baseline of what’s going on. But you have to be careful to remind them that this is a snapshot in time. It doesn’t mean the house never is going to have mold. Do you guys have a mold sniffing dog in your area?
Tessa Murry (35:30.272)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (35:53.696)
Reuben Saltzman (35:54.004)
Not that I know of. We could, but if we do, I have not met said dog.
Tessa Murry (35:56.564)
We should.
Miki Mertz (35:58.822)
We have a couple of them. The company is called Dog Gone Mold. Dog Gone Mold. And just like dogs can be trained to sniff drugs at the airport and any other bombs, these dogs are specially trained to, they are told to go to work and they just, they go through the house and they smell and they look and they look and when they sit in front of something,
Reuben Saltzman (36:02.253)
Really?
Reuben Saltzman (36:06.19)
Okay.
Tessa Murry (36:06.403)
my gosh.
Tessa Murry (36:14.74)
Yeah.
Miki Mertz (36:28.32)
that means the handler should go find out what’s going on there. sometimes it’s hidden. You know, I saw one time when the dog responded and the handler came over and he visually couldn’t see any mold. So he got down by the baseboard and the carpet and gently pried it open. And there was all this mold there. The dog was smelling.
Tessa Murry (36:31.444)
Wow.
Reuben Saltzman (36:51.852)
cool.
Miki Mertz (36:51.866)
And so it turned out that the window on the outside of the windowsill had been leaking behind the siding and then seeped into the subfloor area of the bedroom. But it was invisible to the rest of us. So that’s.
Tessa Murry (36:52.0)
Wow.
Tessa Murry (37:03.344)
my goodness. Ruben, you thinking what I’m thinking? Sarge. Yeah, we need to put him to work. Yeah, Well, he’s a German Shepherd. I think he could do the job potentially. He has the canine makeup.
Reuben Saltzman (37:06.35)
That’s great.
Miki Mertz (37:09.426)
you
Reuben Saltzman (37:10.018)
Yeah, I need to train my dog. Yeah, Sarge is the next, gone mold. Yeah. Yeah. He needs to start earning his keep. He’s been freeloading.
Miki Mertz (37:18.561)
Yeah, with these.
Miki Mertz (37:24.194)
The two dogs that worked for this one company for a while were Crockett and Tubbs. Now Tess, you’re too young to know that reference. Miami Vice, it was the names of the cops.
Reuben Saltzman (37:32.621)
Okay.
Tessa Murry (37:36.37)
Is that from an old TV show? Okay, okay. my goodness. What kind of dogs are they? I’m just curious. Is there certain breed that they use?
Miki Mertz (37:45.841)
It is a breed specific that’s real good, but I don’t know what they are. It’s some kind of medium-sized terrier of some sort. I don’t know what his breed is.
Tessa Murry (37:49.728)
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, why, I mean, why not? Dogs have such a superpower when it comes to, you know, their noses that why not employ them to help us, you know, identify these things that can be extremely harmful to people and cause major health concerns? Because we’re going in there and we’re using our best judgment and what we can see and smell and
Miki Mertz (38:01.879)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (38:17.605)
observe, but there’s a lot of stuff we can’t see and we don’t know that six cents that a dog would have would really help out the home inspector and the potential buyer. That’s a cool idea.
Miki Mertz (38:21.644)
That’s right.
Miki Mertz (38:30.304)
Yeah, since we were talking about mold, I thought you might want to know about that one. But you talked about other air pollutants. We talk about the plug-in air fresheners a lot. They drive me crazy because I got to take them out of the wall so that I can test the receptacles. And then I’ve got that lovely fragrance all over my hands constantly, not to mention what’s in the air.
Tessa Murry (38:32.69)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (38:41.81)
Okay, yeah. Same.
Reuben Saltzman (38:51.308)
Yes.
Tessa Murry (38:51.552)
Right. Yeah. Well, and those have been proven to disrupt all sorts of things in our body. They’re not good for us. No, they’re not good for us. They give me headaches too. yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Well, I think the air quality thing is a tricky subject to navigate because again, there’s so many potential things that could impact the health of the occupants. And a lot of that is way beyond the scope of
Miki Mertz (39:00.822)
Then I could. Now.
Mm-hmm.
Tessa Murry (39:21.458)
what a home inspector can do or should do. But from my experience, one of the biggest complaints from clients that I work with is just their health concerns. And so it’s like, if you’re a home inspector and you’re going through the house and you’re evaluating the systems and you’re trying to make sure there aren’t any big defects or health and safety issues or whatever,
I feel like it’s our duty to try and be educated on what these things are and why they’re a problem and what people can do about them too so that they don’t have these major impacts later.
Miki Mertz (39:59.976)
Absolutely. Yeah, I had one of my clients call me. They had just put in new windows and it was the following winter and they were starting to get sick and that was like, what’s going on? So we discussed that they used to have a house that leaked and got all kinds of fresh air and now it was a tighter house. But as I got up into the attic, the attic was just
Tessa Murry (40:22.751)
Yeah.
Miki Mertz (40:29.262)
all discolored and damp. And they were saying, we don’t have a roof problem. This is not a roof leak. I said, no, it’s your crawl space is leaking. I said, well, how’d the crawl space get upstairs? So we’re talking about all this air movement stuff. the putting the new windows in just magnified it because the stuff that was in the crawl space that was constantly wet, because he had a flat yard and no proper maintained gutters.
Reuben Saltzman (40:40.558)
Hmm.
Tessa Murry (40:45.684)
Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (40:50.158)
Sure.
Tessa Murry (40:58.752)
Hmm.
Miki Mertz (40:59.062)
I had a lake in it practically all the time. It used to be able to just sort of wick up the exterior walls to about the windows and then get outside. Now it was making it all the way up into the attic and so it was all smelling awful and black under there too.
Tessa Murry (41:02.033)
Ugh.
Reuben Saltzman (41:18.094)
And that’s why it’s so important for home inspectors to understand a house as a system. You got all these levers, you move one lever, it’s going to affect other stuff.
Tessa Murry (41:18.247)
Wow.
Tessa Murry (41:23.58)
Amen. Yeah. Yeah, that is the perfect example, Miki. I’ve seen that too, Ruben. I’m sure you have as well. Like we don’t have a ton of crawl spaces here in Minnesota, but we do have some. And if there’s no continuous vapor barrier across that floor or the ground, and even if you’ve got plastic, but it’s not the seams aren’t taped, you can still get a ton of moisture up into the crawl space and
Miki Mertz (41:27.137)
Yes.
Tessa Murry (41:53.532)
up into the house and then it increases the humidity in the house. And like you said, if you improve the air tightness of the walls, you’re still going to have the air leaking out through the lid of the house, especially in the wintertime when it’s cold outside and warm inside and you’ve got this kind of natural stack effect happening. It’s actually as the air leaves out through these attic bypasses in the lid, you’re actually sucking more humid, nasty crawlspace air from the crawlspace into the house. Your house is like a vacuum.
So it’s like a humidification system. Who needs a whole house humidifier? If you’ve got a nasty crawl space that’s wet, and you don’t have proper drainage grading and a vapor barrier down there. hopefully they got that fixed. But that’s the perfect example of when you start to make these kind of incremental changes in houses, and you take an older house and you make it more energy efficient or make it more comfortable by adding new windows, you think that you’re improving something. But if you don’t look at the big picture,
Reuben Saltzman (42:24.931)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (42:51.48)
You are creating all these unintended consequences that can cause rot and durability issues and mold and health problems, all sorts of things. So you really need to think about the house as a system, like you said, Ruben.
Miki Mertz (42:54.017)
Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (43:01.389)
Yes.
Reuben Saltzman (43:05.036)
Yep, yep, absolutely.
Miki Mertz (43:06.85)
I’d say we have probably 20 % of our properties have crawl spaces. It goes back to the 50s houses again. typically have crawl space vents, typically have dirt floors, typically don’t have any very vapor barrier. So we talk about that a lot of how
Tessa Murry (43:19.253)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (43:26.622)
Peace.
Tessa Murry (43:35.241)
Yeah.
Miki Mertz (43:36.52)
improvements can be made in the house. That newer building science is suggesting sealing the area instead of having it vented. Because when you think about it scientifically, if it’s going to be a constant cave-like temperature in the crawl space, what happens when it’s 90 degrees outside and 90 percent humidity? Well, all that hot humid air wants to find a more comfortable space to be, so it’s going in.
Tessa Murry (43:58.717)
off.
Mm-hmm.
Miki Mertz (44:04.098)
So those vents are not helping to air out the crawl space. They’re sucking all that nonsense in. So I talked to them about, you know, what they could do in the future to make the house better. But that’s where you have a kind of a gray area as a home inspector, because I’m inspecting the house as it is today, kind of letting them know what they could do in the future.
Tessa Murry (44:04.745)
Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (44:07.415)
No.
Tessa Murry (44:08.242)
No. Yeah.
Tessa Murry (44:17.693)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (44:21.694)
Yeah.
Miki Mertz (44:29.748)
without making them sound like I’m the house police that says you have to do this. I tell them what they can do and why they can do it, but don’t expect the seller to make any of those big changes for you.
Tessa Murry (44:33.567)
I have to do it.
Reuben Saltzman (44:35.171)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (44:38.663)
Yeah.
Oh, I, Miki, I appreciate you and I appreciate what you’re doing because I’ve worked with so many clients that have had home inspections and they have these houses that, you know, are like you’re talking about, have these crawl spaces, don’t have vapor barriers, have other things going on that aren’t necessarily wrong or weren’t wrong at the time, but could lead to comfort problems or durability problems. And especially if they want to upgrade it at some point, they have to do it thoughtfully and systematically. And
You know, a lot of these people that I work with, they’re like, if I would have known that this was the problem or I’d have these issues and this is what it would take to fix it and make it more comfortable or make it more healthy, I probably wouldn’t have bought the house. So it is that gray area. It’s tough to navigate as a home inspector. And I think that’s why it’s so important to try and understand building science and the house as a system so that you can better.
You’re not saying it’s right or wrong. What you’re doing is you’re educating the client on what it is and what it could be, potentially.
Reuben Saltzman (45:45.048)
Yep.
Tessa Murry (45:46.558)
and helping them make their own educated decisions at that point.
Miki Mertz (45:50.24)
Definitely an educated decision. I have seen a change probably since COVID. And I think a lot of it has to do with there’s not a lot of houses around right now. And so there’s multiple offers on the houses. A lot of times now it’s changed that when I do a home inspection, the buyer has to make a choice, take the house as is or walk away from the deal.
There isn’t a negotiation space anymore that they used to, because if they start negotiating, they fear that they may lose the house. So I think that’s changed. It doesn’t change what we do. We still are going to report the same stuff, but it changes the behavior of the client because they have to really decide, well, how much money do I want to put into the house in order to make it healthier and safer and better and functional?
Tessa Murry (46:22.292)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Reuben Saltzman (46:26.083)
Yep.
Tessa Murry (46:32.775)
on.
Tessa Murry (46:36.531)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (46:43.828)
Yeah. Yeah.
Miki Mertz (46:47.298)
they’re not going be able to negotiate a lot of the big repairs like they used to because it’s being sold as is.
Tessa Murry (46:48.49)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (46:53.269)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (46:56.975)
Yeah. Yep. We’re seeing the same stuff here, I think. I don’t know, Ruben, would you agree?
Miki Mertz (47:00.29)
How are you?
Reuben Saltzman (47:02.854)
yeah, I definitely think so. And I mean, I when I go out looking at house, I mean, my wife and I have looked at a lot of houses together just as investment properties. And I got to tell you, I hate almost all of them. I mean, almost almost every house I go to, I think there’s no way I would want to buy this house. There is so much going on. mean, like, like, OK.
Tessa Murry (47:16.464)
Check.
Tessa Murry (47:23.998)
Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (47:26.638)
know, from a home inspection perspective, you’re like, yeah, you know, the windows are going to need services is going to need service. But in my mind, when I’m thinking I got to do all this, I’m like, no way. This is so much I know what it takes to do all of this. And all these old houses, I’m just going no, no, no, no. And you know, it’s at the point where my wife’s just like, Can you please not say no so fast? Can we just look at it together?
Tessa Murry (47:35.39)
Yeah. No, thanks.
Tessa Murry (47:49.021)
I know.
Reuben Saltzman (47:53.578)
Look, I don’t I don’t have to. My mind is made up. And but as home inspectors, we can’t do that. We can’t make these decisions for people. We got to just present it in a fair light and let them make their own decisions. But so often I’m thinking to myself, if you only really, really knew, would you really be wanting to buy this? Maybe you would. Maybe I’m just picky. I don’t know.
Tessa Murry (48:15.783)
No.
Miki Mertz (48:17.666)
Well, you could go in and flip it like most of the flipped houses that we see.
Reuben Saltzman (48:23.372)
Yeah, and just hide it all, right?
Tessa Murry (48:23.975)
ho.
Clock it, paint it, good to go. my gosh.
Reuben Saltzman (48:30.604)
Yeah, yeah, I’m sure I shared a story on this podcast about a house that we looked at where it was a flipped house. And I mean, you know, it’s got all the things it’s got the grand and countertops and the new kitchen and all that and it’s all beautiful inside. go downstairs and it’s it’s basically there’s there’s a tiny little round hole of a basement and then the rest of the house is a crawl space. And I had a there and then we learned there’s already an offer it’s contingent.
Tessa Murry (48:42.975)
Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (48:59.366)
It’s gonna, it’s gonna sell. And I brush away these cobwebs and which tells me nobody has even done this. Nobody’s even been there. And the crawl space is just a mess. I mean, the foundation is caving in. The wood is just rotted away at the edges. I mean, it’s just a nasty mess. And someone’s gonna write an offer on this. Someone’s buying this. They have no idea what they’re getting.
Tessa Murry (49:07.413)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (49:16.008)
Miki Mertz (49:21.538)
Because the living part of the living space is pretty.
Tessa Murry (49:23.008)
Probably paying top dollar. Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (49:26.741)
Exactly. Exactly.
Tessa Murry (49:27.412)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, hopefully they have a good home inspection and they have an educated home inspector who knows what they’re looking at and can translate what that means for them.
Reuben Saltzman (49:38.102)
Yes.
Miki Mertz (49:38.922)
Yeah, I’d say the biggest thing on flipped houses is they do make it and I can’t say that all flippers are like this because I do have a few that are really good. But the majority of them, they make it pretty. know, so like you said, the countertops and the new tile and the new flooring and the new windows a lot of times and new paint. So all of that’s beautiful. And then they leave the old HVAC without even servicing it.
Reuben Saltzman (49:50.593)
Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (50:00.928)
Uh-huh.
Tessa Murry (50:07.541)
Yeah.
Miki Mertz (50:09.132)
the water heater that’s ancient and already leaking, and most importantly, the problematic electric panels and all kinds of defects electrically. They didn’t upgrade anything. It’s still without GFIs in places that it should be. Three-way light switches are a mystery to them.
Tessa Murry (50:11.156)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (50:30.757)
I’m sorry.
Reuben Saltzman (50:31.02)
Yeah. Yeah, well, it’s because they could easily spend $50,000 on that, and you’re not going to get a penny more for the house that doesn’t sell the house. Nobody cares. So, I mean, it’s easy to understand why it’s just really unfortunate.
Tessa Murry (50:37.512)
Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah.
Miki Mertz (50:41.686)
Yeah. No.
Miki Mertz (50:47.274)
It really is. I’d rather see them address the important health and safety and expensive stuff, the foundation, the electric, the heating, cooling, the roof. Get that stuff upgraded and normal and healthy. And then let whoever wants to buy it worry about painting it and carpeting it.
Tessa Murry (50:48.02)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (50:58.528)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (51:05.656)
Yeah, yeah, let them do it the way they want it.
Tessa Murry (51:06.06)
Hey guys, is the, you I was going to say so many, again, going back to my clients, I’m just thinking about, as you’re saying this, I have so many clients that are first time home buyers and they either had an inspection or they didn’t because of, you know, the competitive market and during COVID and they put in a ton of offers that night. And so a lot of my clients have those houses you’re just describing where since they’re first time home buyers, they’re, you know,
It’s a tight market. There’s not a lot of inventory and the houses are old and crappy. They bought it because it looked kind of nice. Now, they’re the realization of what needs to be done and the cost of it all is hitting them. Everything that needs to be done is not the fun stuff. It’s not the stuff that you get a big return on investment for. It’s like structural things, HVAC stuff.
plumbing, electrical. And it’s it’s kind of painful to watch, you know, these first time home buyers going through that realization. I wish we could, I wish there was something we could do about that. But again, if people decide to not get a home inspection, you know, that’s their choice.
Reuben Saltzman (52:19.542)
Yeah, yeah, there’s only so much you can do.
Tessa Murry (52:22.418)
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Well, you know, I was just looking at the time, we should probably wrap this up. But I have one more question for you, Miki. I’m wondering, what words of wisdom you would want to impart on your younger self if you were if you know, knowing what you know now? What what’s some advice you’d want to tell yourself when you just started this business 30 plus years ago?
Miki Mertz (52:30.134)
Okay.
Miki Mertz (52:46.378)
probably to remind myself to continue learning as much as possible, as fast as possible, because that first year is terrifying. You think you know everything and you really know nothing. so learn a lot and then make some plans as far as how do you want a business to run? I have never done my business the right way. I’ve been blessed that.
Tessa Murry (53:01.597)
Hahaha.
Miki Mertz (53:15.488)
I’ve been able to coast through. mean, even when I had employees and stuff, just, I don’t have a business education. I don’t have a huge company like Rubin does. And now I’m back to being my, just by myself, which is comfortable and fine as I, you know, wind down to the end of my career. But I think that’s what I would do. Keep getting the education and include some education on business knowledge.
Tessa Murry (53:41.088)
Yeah. Good advice. There you go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thanks, Miki, for coming on the show. Was there anything else you wanted to add or you wanted to say that we didn’t cover today on the podcast?
Reuben Saltzman (53:42.232)
Good plug for that business mastery for solo inspectors for IEB. To bring it full circle. Yes.
Miki Mertz (53:45.636)
Hahaha!
Miki Mertz (53:59.27)
No, I just really appreciate that you guys are doing this kind of stuff because people need to talk about everything involved with home inspections so that you can keep helping each other and keep learning.
Reuben Saltzman (54:11.842)
Well put. Yep. Agreed. Yeah. Thank you. And we’ll put a link to your info in the show notes where people can find you, And for any of our listeners, if you want to reach out to us, got any questions, thoughts, whatever, please email us. It’s podcast at StructureTech.com and we will catch you next time. Take care.
Tessa Murry (54:11.986)
Amen. Yeah. Well, thank you, Miki. Appreciate you coming on today.