In this episode, Reuben and Tessa discuss the transition into spring, personal life updates, and mold remediation challenges. Tessa shares her firsthand experience with mold issues in her boyfriend’s apartment, while Reuben talks about his HVAC problems and the importance of air quality. They also touch on industry trends in home inspection and the significance of maintaining healthy living environments. In this episode, Tessa Murry and Reuben Saltzman discuss various aspects of indoor air quality, home energy efficiency, and the importance of maintaining home systems like HRVs and water heaters. They share personal experiences and insights on how these factors impact health and home durability, while also providing updates on industry standards and practical solutions for homeowners.
Takeaways
Spring brings changes in weather and personal life.
Mold remediation can be a complex process.
Air quality is crucial for health and comfort.
Duct cleaning can have mixed results on air quality.
Personal experiences shape professional insights.
Communication is key during remediation processes.
Investing in air purifiers can improve indoor air quality.
Understanding HVAC systems is essential for homeowners.
Home inspection trends are evolving with technology.
Maintaining a healthy living environment is a priority. Indoor air quality issues can stem from disconnected HRV systems.
Energy efficiency must be balanced with home durability.
Regular maintenance of home systems is crucial for health.
Anode rods in water heaters often disintegrate, leading to issues.
Creating DIY air purifiers can be an effective solution.
Homeowners should be aware of the potential for mold in ventilation systems.
The importance of checking behind vinyl siding for moisture issues.
Teaching in person allows for better interaction and learning.
Home inspection standards are under revision due to community feedback.
Homeowners should share their experiences to foster community learning,
Chapters
00:00 Springtime Reflections and Weather Changes
06:01 Mold Remediation Experiences
11:56 Health Challenges and HVAC Issues
23:11 Identifying Indoor Air Quality Issues
28:38 The Challenges of Energy Efficiency in Homes
36:49 Updates on Home Inspection Standards
TRANSCRIPTION
The following is an AI-generated transcription from an audio recording. Although the transcription is mostly accurate, it will contain some errors due to inaudible passages or transcription errors.
Reuben Saltzman: Welcome to my house. Welcome to the Structure Talk podcast, a production of Structure Tech Home Inspections. My name is Reuben Saltzman. I’m your host alongside building science geek, Tessa Murry. We help home inspectors up their game through education, and we help homeowners to be better stewards of their houses. We’ve been keeping it real on this podcast since 2019, and we are also the number one home inspection podcast in the world, according to my mom.
Reuben Saltzman (00:01.408)
Welcome back to the show. It’s almost summer. Okay. It’s almost spring and Tessa, you look like you’re dressed for spring. You got a tank top on. I’m so jealous. Look at you.
Tessa Murry (00:13.816)
Hey, I am I am down here in Tampa again and it’s a high in the 80s today so but you guys are not far behind because I was just in Minnesota and you guys were had like a heat wave I was wearing like a long-sleeve t-shirt while I was running around up there doing consulting and And and what is it like 70 degrees today? And this is this is early March mid-march. We’re broadcasting
Reuben Saltzman (00:21.75)
Word? No!
Reuben Saltzman (00:34.327)
Yes.
Yes, it is. It is about 70 degrees here in Minnesota on and we’re recording on Pi Day. It’s a really big deal for all the math teachers. Don’t you remember like grade school and high school and all that? Like the math teachers would be looking forward to it. And it’s like this is their day. This is their their their holiday.
Tessa Murry (00:45.176)
Hopefully. How could I forget? Friday.
Tessa Murry (00:55.008)
my gosh.
Well, this is also the Friday before spring break, at least down here. So it’s a happy day. Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of spring, though, this is just Minnesota’s first fall spring. You know that you’re going to get another wave of probably snow, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (01:02.966)
sure. OK. All right. Nice.
Reuben Saltzman (01:14.452)
You shut your mouth. Yeah, we probably are. Probably aren’t. It’s not going to last. We’ve not I didn’t go snowmobiling once this year, Jess. I’m probably lamented on this podcast already. But.
Tessa Murry (01:26.55)
That’s crazy! I know, well the last couple winters there’s been no snow.
Reuben Saltzman (01:33.152)
No, I didn’t go last year either. I haven’t been snowmobiling for two years, Tess. Well, over two years. It’s ridiculous.
Tessa Murry (01:35.276)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (01:39.446)
You’re going to have to move to Has it been three? Wow. Yeah, crazy.
Reuben Saltzman (01:41.362)
Or wait a minute, two, three years. Yeah, it’s whatever it is. It’s a long time. Yeah, I may have to move to Canada. You’re right. Or or just move down to Florida and just embrace it. yeah, yeah, that’s OK. That’s OK. I don’t mind the mild. It’s it’s all right. It is nice. I’ve been able to get out and do some disc golfing really early this year.
Tessa Murry (01:52.718)
Go the other direction. Yeah
Tessa Murry (02:06.91)
Yeah, that’s nice. That’s nice.
Reuben Saltzman (02:07.252)
So I’ve been taking advantage of whatever weather we have. I remember when my kids were in Montessori school, one thing the teachers would always say is there’s no such thing as bad weather, just bad decisions on what you wear outside or some version of that, just bad clothes.
Tessa Murry (02:14.84)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (02:22.774)
I have heard that. have, yes, just the wrong clothes. I have heard that as well. Yes. Although when it gets to be, you know, this is winter here in Florida and I’m wearing a tank top right now. I think I’m going to die come July and August. We’ll see. That’s when I’ll be spending more of my time up in Minnesota. Yeah. Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (02:42.9)
Okay good, love it. So what else is new in your world Tess?
Tessa Murry (02:48.546)
Well, yeah, I was going to say, so we haven’t done a podcast with just you and me for a while. And we also have been kind of sporadic in our pod. Yeah. And, and we’ve been sporadic too in our podcast. We’ve had a lot going on. You’ve been traveling. I want to hear about that. And I’ve had a lot going on too in my life. So, just to kind of summarize everything, I, I am spending more time in Florida. My, boyfriend and his family are down here and,
Reuben Saltzman (02:53.474)
It’s been over three months, yes.
Reuben Saltzman (03:02.132)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (03:14.272)
And so I’m kind of splitting my time between Florida and Minnesota. I’m continuing to do my house coach consultations and house coach consulting from a distance. And so far I’m not doing any of that in Florida yet, but all my clients are up in Minnesota. So when I come back to Minnesota, I’m visiting with family, with friends, and then I’m packing in all my consults. it’s…
It’s been, life has been a little chaotic with everything going on, but it’s been really good. And, and yeah, and this is a whole nother story, but the past month there’s been a lot going on with just personal life, work life, all of that. But one of the things I’ve, I’ve been, that’s been a challenge has been my boyfriend’s apartment in Florida has been going through mold remediation.
So I’ve been able to see what that looks like firsthand as well.
Reuben Saltzman (04:06.051)
great. So did you force this? Like you come down there and then you tell them you got mold, you need to move out? Is that what happened?
Tessa Murry (04:13.91)
How did this happen? Yeah, well it was funny. Actually, the AC went out. As soon as he moved in, the AC went out. of course, you know, here in Florida, it’s like you need AC year round. So it’s an immediate issue and maintenance got on top of that. But then he realized and I realized once we were kind of digging around a little bit.
that the condensate line for the AC, there was a main condensate line and then there was a backup condensate line. And the main condensate line must have been clogged for very long time because the backup line had become the primary and the backup line was dumping into a tiny little Tupperware container on the floor.
Reuben Saltzman (04:48.842)
Uh-huh.
Reuben Saltzman (04:58.476)
Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (05:05.014)
What could go wrong? Oh no.
Tessa Murry (05:05.898)
It didn’t drain to anywhere. Yes. And this had been going on for what looked to be like years.
Reuben Saltzman (05:13.474)
All right, now Tess, let me pause before you continue with your story. There’s a teaching moment here. We all know from a building, you know, in home inspection standpoint, there’s four ways to deal with condensate. If you have an AC in an area where a leak is gonna cause damage, there’s four ways to deal with it. And one of them,
Tessa Murry (05:34.018)
Mm-hmm.
Reuben Saltzman (05:37.278)
is to have a secondary drain like like you’re describing so that if the first one fails you got a secondary drain where is that secondary drain supposed to go
Tessa Murry (05:40.482)
Yeah. Yeah.
Tessa Murry (05:49.742)
Somewhere out. Not to the floor.
Reuben Saltzman (05:53.602)
Well, even more specific, a conspicuous location.
Tessa Murry (06:01.056)
Is this what, where are you getting this language from? Conspicuous location.
Reuben Saltzman (06:05.602)
The building code. It’s my own interpretation of it. I didn’t prepare for this story, so I don’t have the exact code language.
Tessa Murry (06:08.0)
Okay. Okay. Okay, sorry. I know you were pulling it from somewhere. That’s why I asked that question. It’s official. Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (06:17.088)
That’s yeah, it’s it’s it says basically that. And what does conspicuous mean? Well, running it out the side of the house and just down the side of the wall where nobody is going to notice that would not be a conspicuous location because.
Tessa Murry (06:21.762)
Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (06:34.814)
Now, your secondary is being used, you need to do some about it. How are you ever going to know if it just goes to the outside? You can’t run it to a floor drain. That’s not conspicuous. Conspicuous would be like running it to the soffit right and then and then it drains right above the kitchen window. So you’re seeing water dripping out of your roof on a on a, you know, sunny summer day. And you go, something’s wrong or I’ve heard
Tessa Murry (06:37.166)
Mm.
Tessa Murry (06:52.238)
Ugh… Yeah.
Tessa Murry (07:00.189)
man.
Reuben Saltzman (07:01.94)
Another great location is like in commercial installations, they’ll run it above the sink in the women’s bathroom. Because if they do it above the sink of the men’s bathroom, nobody will do anything. Yeah, they won’t say they just say, don’t know, not my problem, but women will be all over it and they will report it immediately. And I’m not making this up. So that was just a quick tangent.
Tessa Murry (07:06.232)
Mm-hmm.
Tessa Murry (07:10.222)
interesting. They won’t notice.
Tessa Murry (07:20.714)
God well I can believe you so we removed there was this kind of pan underneath the The AC unit the air handler in the closet removed that and was looking underneath the unit and there’s this kind of this dead space that’s probably four feet deep by two feet wide by a foot and a half tall and That whole space is where this condensate line quote
conspicuous condensing line that was hidden with no access panel was draining too for years and the studs in the wall were black and rotted. The bottom plate was disintegrated and completely gone. There was mold on the back of the drywall. So of course I see this and I’m thinking, my gosh. no, this is terrible. Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (07:51.65)
You
Reuben Saltzman (08:05.761)
no.
Reuben Saltzman (08:14.86)
Get out, get out, get out.
Tessa Murry (08:17.746)
Yeah, you know, thank goodness though, it has been quote cool here in Tampa this month. And so, you know, while all this was going on, you know, able to have the windows open and not have to run rely on the AC and everything too, since the AC was replaced as well. So, but what was what was very interesting was just being on the other end of this whole mold remediation thing. I have about three clients right now that I’m working with.
Reuben Saltzman (08:33.014)
That’s nice. Yeah.
Tessa Murry (08:45.92)
that are going through this with mold remediation in their homes. And now I’m experiencing it for myself. it was crazy because I didn’t know exactly what they were going to do because this is an apartment complex. The communication hasn’t been great. And come in one day and there is plastic up everywhere. And they’ve created their own little rooms and spaces. It’s on the walls. It’s on the floor.
Certain rooms are taped off. They’ve got zipper accesses to different areas. It looks like a a scene out of Dexter And my gosh. Yeah, totally and they ended up actually cutting out portions. Thank goodness Of the sheetrock and the wall. They removed a bunch of sheetrock and then they I I don’t know exactly what they did
Reuben Saltzman (09:23.81)
Wow, you gotta kill room. Yeah
Reuben Saltzman (09:38.86)
They didn’t just spray it with bleach.
Tessa Murry (09:41.172)
You know, I don’t know what they did because I wasn’t here for that and You know, they were following some sort of protocol clearly so I don’t know if they sprayed it with bleach or what they did. There’s no access panel again And there’s a new ac unit so I have not stuck my head in there to see it But it was it was serious and it was about a week long So, and then this is interesting too. They came in after that and they scheduled duct cleaning So that was a surprise to me as well
Reuben Saltzman (09:49.364)
Okay.
Reuben Saltzman (09:59.554)
okay.
Tessa Murry (10:11.102)
And, and you know, they, they told us you have to get out because there’s going to be a chemical that gets sprayed too, which you and I have talked about this on our podcast before. And there’s definitely, I’ve got kind of mixed feelings about duct cleaning in itself. And I think there’s certain situations where it can be a really good thing and it can, it can improve air quality if it’s done by someone who knows what they’re doing and they’re doing a thorough good job. but there’s other situations and there’s other.
Reuben Saltzman (10:16.932)
Mm-hmm
Tessa Murry (10:37.646)
you know, research that’s been done that shows that duck cleaning can just kind of make your indoor air quality problem worse and it can kick up all these things into the air and it’s not cleaned properly, all these other things. And then you throw on the chemical applications and it can really impact air quality negatively and cause other problems as well. So I was thinking, oh man, oh no. But again, no control. This is a rental situation and I don’t know who they hired, but the first good sign that I saw
Reuben Saltzman (10:46.241)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (11:06.892)
was that they replaced all of the supply registers in the apartment. Everything was brand new. Now I have not gone digging in the duct work yet. I do want to pop one off and just take my flashlight and look in there and see what it looks like because they were pretty nasty before. But there was a kind of a faint chemical smell afterwards. So.
Reuben Saltzman (11:08.29)
wow, okay.
Reuben Saltzman (11:20.747)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (11:29.676)
We’ve invested in an air purifier that’s really good. It’s got a pre-filter, a charcoal filter and HEPA filter. Been running that nonstop. When they came in and did the mold remediation, they also brought a massive HEPA fan filter thing that was running the whole time and a commercial dehumidifier that was hooked up and running constantly as well. So we’ve had all these filters going. The duct work was cleaned. The chemical smell is still there. So
Reuben Saltzman (11:45.282)
Sure.
Tessa Murry (11:56.558)
This is just very recent. just was opening up the windows and turn the fan on I’m just kind of circulating the air trying to get some air exchange and fresh air in here and then running the air purifier too, so Yeah, it’s been very interesting. I wish I had some some monitors I wish I wish we were sponsored by air things. Can I throw that out there? I’d love to get some some some technology and some devices in here to measure the different particulates and everything that’s happening, but
Reuben Saltzman (12:15.426)
You
Tessa Murry (12:25.418)
So far, it’s been an interesting, it’s been an interesting month.
Reuben Saltzman (12:29.87)
my gosh, you got a lot going on Tess. Wow. okay.
Tessa Murry (12:32.686)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know I just I feel for people that are that are dealing with mold have dealt with mold and And you know are in the middle of mold remediation too. Like I said I’ve got a few clients that are that are dealing with that and it is Opening up a can of worms really and if you’ve got health issues You know, it’s it’s it’s really challenging to navigate all this. So I’m just grateful
Reuben Saltzman (13:00.384)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (13:01.814)
that I have stayed healthy and we’ve stayed healthy. Well, okay, that’s a whole nother story. The flu went through the family. So I’ve been super sick. Everybody else has been sick. But in terms of the mold making us sick, I don’t think it has. Knock on wood.
Reuben Saltzman (13:08.82)
okay okay good good and you well you know if it had okay
Tessa Murry (13:20.758)
I think so. think so. Yes, definitely. Yep. So anyways, that’s just a little bit about my personal life here. So, but I want to hear about you, Ruben. I know you’ve been super busy and doing some interesting things too. So what’s new in your world?
Reuben Saltzman (13:38.572)
Well, did I talk on the podcast about replacing my HRV? Do we talk about that? Okay. All right. Well, I’ve got…
Tessa Murry (13:44.628)
No, you did not. I don’t think so. Unless I was delirious on my my flu medicine the last time we did a podcast. It’s a little feverish. I don’t think you did though.
Reuben Saltzman (13:54.1)
Okay. All right. Well, you know what? We got so much to talk about. I don’t even know if we’re going to get to the show topic. We had a topic plan. We might just have to do that next time test because we just got too much catch up to do after not doing a podcast with just the two of us. This is just going to be a, I don’t know. This will be a miscellaneous topic.
Tessa Murry (14:06.99)
I was gonna say, yeah, yeah.
Tessa Murry (14:14.702)
An update, yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (14:16.514)
Well, you talked about show sponsors and made me think, hey, I need to give a shout out to our show sponsors. We do have show sponsors. Yeah, it’s it’s IEB, Inspector Empire Builder. How could I forget? I got a couple of things I want to throw out there that we’ve been talking about a lot. Now we’re out of practice. We’re yeah, we’ll lose our rhythm.
Tessa Murry (14:22.718)
we forgot. Yes. You never forget. Yeah. Yeah.
We’re out of practice.
Reuben Saltzman (14:37.612)
Couple of things we’ve been talking about. Number one is relationship marketing. And it’s just about how larger home inspection companies are winning through referrals and agent relationships, personalized client experiences. Another thing we’ve been talking a lot about is AI and how to use that in the inspection industry. And yet another one is hiring and scaling.
Tessa Murry (14:55.335)
Hmm.
Reuben Saltzman (15:00.338)
So those are, those are a few of the bigger topics we’ve been chatting about lately. And there is an event coming up at the beginning. No, mid May, I don’t have the exact dates in front of me, but it’s called IEB Unite. It’s always the largest in-person gathering, the largest conference that we have for IEB. And it’s where home inspectors all over the country get together for a couple of days of training and education and just.
Tessa Murry (15:00.814)
Hmm.
Reuben Saltzman (15:30.692)
bouncing ideas off each other and this is not technical stuff it’s all about running your home inspection business up in the air whether I’m gonna be at this event or not it depends kind of how the family schedule goes but I’m very much hoping I can do it half the reason I want to do it is I heard the first day kind of pre-conference stuff if you get there early for one of the fun events I heard a rumor we’re gonna all be going out to play paintball
Tessa Murry (15:37.71)
Hmm.
Tessa Murry (15:45.486)
Mm-hmm.
Reuben Saltzman (15:58.932)
So I really want to be there for that.
Tessa Murry (15:59.694)
one of your favorite activities, yes.
Reuben Saltzman (16:05.47)
Yeah, so much fun. So if you want more information, we will have a link to IEB and IEB Unite that event in the show notes. You don’t need to be a member of IEB to attend this event. Just a fantastic event. So shout out to IEB there. All right, back to the HRV test. I think it’s been long enough now where I can talk about it because at first I couldn’t talk about this.
Tessa Murry (16:19.374)
Hmm.
Huh.
Tessa Murry (16:27.307)
Now.
Tessa Murry (16:33.358)
Yeah, yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (16:34.69)
because it was just such a stupid mistake. All right, here’s the deal. I was getting, I was getting really sneezy around my house. just like two. Yeah.
Tessa Murry (16:38.958)
Ugh.
Tessa Murry (16:45.376)
I remember you talking about that. You did mention how you’ve had some, yeah, you didn’t know if it was allergies or what was going on. Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (16:52.148)
Yeah, I didn’t know what it was. I was just getting really frustrated. Like maybe twice a week, I would just be overcome with sneeziness. It’d be like a runny nose, sneezing, watery eyes. eventually when I’d have to walk around the house, I would just take like Kleenex and stuff it up my nose and walk around with it. Cause it’s like a faucet turned on and I’m like, what is going on? And then the next day I’m perfectly fine, which means
Tessa Murry (17:03.924)
Yeah. Ugh, it’s awful.
Tessa Murry (17:11.534)
Stuff. That’s so miserable. my gosh. So weird.
Reuben Saltzman (17:21.314)
this cannot be a cold, you don’t get a cold for one day. And I’m thinking, and I went in for allergy testing and the doctor was like, yep, you’re allergic to dust mites. Okay, I knew that from high school. I guess I’m still allergic to dust mites. So I thought it’s gotta be my HVAC system. I replaced my furnace filter like I always do, it wasn’t that bad. And I thought, I wonder if this is an issue with my HRV. And…
Tessa Murry (17:25.067)
No. No.
Tessa Murry (17:30.424)
Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
Tessa Murry (17:41.826)
Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (17:49.002)
I, you know, my filters were dirty. They were due for cleaning. I thought, okay, I’ll clean the filters. And I was like, when was the last time I cleaned my core? I don’t even remember when I last cleaned my core. And this is, this is new year’s Eve day. I remember that for some reason. And I was, I was at home all day and I was just sneezy and I had taken every cold medicine you could think of to get this to stop. I took like Benadryl and Sudafed and Alka-Seltzer.
Tessa Murry (17:55.029)
Mm-hmm.
Tessa Murry (17:59.054)
Mmm.
Tessa Murry (18:05.71)
coming.
Tessa Murry (18:17.61)
my gosh. Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (18:18.274)
And I’m just like, I’m a walking zombie and I’m like, yeah, I’m going to, I’m going to take care of the, uh, the HRV filter. And I pulled the thing out and, it’s this big box. And for anybody who doesn’t know what an HRV it’s this big, it’s this thing that gets installed kind of next to your furnace. And it’s responsible for bringing fresh air in exhausting stale air. And it’s got this thing called the heat exchanger and it’s basically this big square. And it’s where.
Tessa Murry (18:25.688)
Ha ha ha!
Tessa Murry (18:41.41)
Mm-hmm.
Reuben Saltzman (18:47.656)
some air goes one way, some air goes the other way, the air never touches each other, you just recoup a bunch of the energy that might leave your house. And so I take this
Tessa Murry (18:57.772)
The incoming air and the outgoing air, they go through this core, but they don’t mix. They just transfer the heat so that you save energy. Yeah. Okay.
Reuben Saltzman (19:01.697)
Yeah.
Exactly. If you take your fingers together and you lay some together, like here’s the church, here’s the steeple, and you picture some air is going through fingers one way, some air is going through fingers the other way, they pass next to each other, but they never mix. So that’s your core. And there’s two different types of cores. There’s the plastic ones where to wash them, you soak them in a tub of
Tessa Murry (19:11.468)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (19:20.173)
Mm-hmm.
Reuben Saltzman (19:30.068)
water and soap and you let it sit there overnight or whatever you rinse it out and you’re good. Then there’s the paper ones where you just take a vacuum and you just kind of vacuum the ends of it and that’s it. So I pull mine out I’m like yeah I’ve got the the washable kind it’s all plastic on the end so I take it in my shower and I get the hand shower and I spray it all out I go to rotate it I can’t even lift it like
Tessa Murry (19:32.129)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (19:41.708)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (19:49.975)
enough
Tessa Murry (19:54.766)
Mm-hmm.
no.
Reuben Saltzman (19:57.474)
It just got super heavy. I don’t want. Oh my goodness. What did I just do? So I stick my fingers in this core and it turns out it’s plastic tipped. There’s there’s plastic for about a half of an inch. And then after the plastic, like you pull the pull the core apart and then it’s all paper in the middle. I’m like, oh, great. I just wrecked my core. Yeah, because there’s no way there’s no way it’s ever going to dry out. So.
Tessa Murry (20:09.671)
no.
Tessa Murry (20:17.326)
Oh no. Oh, did you freak? Ugh. Yeah, oh no. No, no. Oh no, Ruben, that’s horrible. Oh gosh. Wait, is that the first time you’ve ever cleaned your core then? Since you’ve been in your house?
Reuben Saltzman (20:27.778)
Yeah, so that was very frustrating. Yes, yes.
No, I guess what I’ve done in the past was I just vacuumed vacuum the ends off. and I
Tessa Murry (20:39.046)
Okay, yeah, you really wanted to do a thorough job this time and you didn’t read the directions
Reuben Saltzman (20:46.338)
I, I, know, I didn’t, I didn’t, I didn’t read the directions, but it said like vacuum it out or it said clean the core or something like that. I’m like, yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s plastic. I’m going to give this a good, I’m going to put it in the shower. Like, but it wasn’t plastic. So that was one of the dumbest things I’ve ever done. Yeah. And, and so I, I’m like, okay, I can’t put it back together. And I never turned my HRV back on. You know, I just, I unplugged it at that point and.
Tessa Murry (20:49.454)
that sucks so much. Yeah. Yeah.
Tessa Murry (20:59.53)
Washing. Yeah. no. It showed you.
Tessa Murry (21:12.298)
Okay. Okay.
Reuben Saltzman (21:17.462)
I’ve been fine ever since like no allergies. so it, it, it, yeah, like nothing. So I think all of this sneeziness was related to my HRV. Hold on. I’ll tell you what I think is going on here. all right. So first, okay. Got to get a new core for my HRV, right? You know, go online. It shouldn’t be more than a couple hundred bucks. I mean, that’s a lot for a piece of cardboard, right?
Tessa Murry (21:22.839)
What?
Tessa Murry (21:26.699)
What?
Tessa Murry (21:32.601)
So interesting.
Tessa Murry (21:41.004)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (21:46.978)
Tess, Tess, $2,000. No, $2,000 for the stinking piece of cardboard. That’s exactly what I did. I hired my favorite HVAC company to come out and they entirely replaced my HRV, put a new one in and I sat on it for a while because I just…
Tessa Murry (21:52.482)
knew it was gonna be like a thousand bucks. Yeah, but two thousand. Holy cow Ruben at that point you just get a new one Yeah, you just get a new one, right? Yeah. my gosh
Tessa Murry (22:09.506)
Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (22:15.68)
I just felt so stupid and I’m like, what else can I do? And to be fair though, this, this HRV was over 20 years old. It was at the end of its life. then. Yes.
Tessa Murry (22:17.74)
Time.
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (22:26.382)
Okay, well at least you didn’t do this when it was five years old or two years old. You got a good, it lived a good life.
Reuben Saltzman (22:33.986)
It did. And you know what? I had totally forgotten about this. I guess I discovered this when I first moved into my house. One of the dampers, one of the internal dampers that’s supposed to close was it had malfunctioned and it would not open. So my HIV wasn’t working. And I dutifully fixed it by inserting a soup can into this duct to keep the damper open.
Tessa Murry (22:44.515)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (22:58.776)
Shit!
Reuben Saltzman (23:02.978)
And so as I’m digging around, I’m like, when did I put this soup can in there? Yeah. So I’m like, OK. Not at all. So I’m like, all right, you know what? It’s due. I needed to replace this a long time ago. I must have done this at the end of the season and forgotten about it. So I got a new HRV now. The day after they put it in or maybe two days after they put it in, I get sneezy again and I’m like, OK.
Tessa Murry (23:03.395)
Thanks
So much for balancing. Yeah.
doesn’t impede airflow at all. Yeah, that’s hilarious.
Tessa Murry (23:17.916)
my gosh. Yeah. Been limping along. Hilarious.
Tessa Murry (23:29.026)
Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (23:32.556)
There’s a problem. so I think it don’t, I think I figured it out. will, I’ll follow up on a future podcast, but I think I know what the issue is in my living space, kind of in the entryway, right where I know the duct for the outside air passes, there’s a cold spot on my floor. And I mean, you can feel it when you stand on it. It’s like right in the middle of living space. It’s living space below. It’s living space above.
Tessa Murry (23:34.103)
What?
Okay.
Tessa Murry (23:45.73)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (23:50.03)
I will.
Tessa Murry (23:57.742)
Okay.
Reuben Saltzman (23:59.532)
but there’s this big cold spot, like a one foot where it’s just icy cold on the floor. And I mean, you can see it plain as day with an infrared camera. And I always thought that’s gotta be my combustion air intake. But now I’m thinking, no, it’s not my combustion air intake. It’s the intake for the HRV. It’s ripped apart. It’s disconnected. My HRV is taking dusty air from the floor space and it’s passing it through the HRV. I think that’s what’s happening. So.
Tessa Murry (24:04.941)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (24:17.421)
Huh.
Tessa Murry (24:25.345)
Right.
Reuben Saltzman (24:29.154)
Next step is I’m going to tear open my ceiling. I’m going to get to the bottom.
Tessa Murry (24:29.965)
What? Okay.
Tessa Murry (24:34.882)
I have an idea. What if you take a smoke puffer or a fog machine and you put it outside of the intake on the outside of your house next to the intake vent and then turn on your HRV and open up the door and if you get a bunch of smoke coming in through your HRV, you know it’s pulling from the outside as well as maybe the floor cavity too, but at least you know at least it’s connected to the exterior before you start ripping open ceiling. Yeah, yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (24:36.044)
Okay.
Reuben Saltzman (24:42.934)
huh. Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (24:57.986)
Like at least some air is coming. I might, but I’ll still be unsatisfied with knowing that there is something that’s definitely disconnected at the ceiling. Because why is my floor cold? Yeah. So I’ll get back to you. Yeah. Yeah. No.
Tessa Murry (25:07.117)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (25:11.566)
I’m so-
Tessa Murry (25:16.468)
Well, okay, yeah, and this is during winter time your floor is cold. It’s not when you’re running your AC. It’s it’s okay. There’s a cavity that’s cold in your floor space in the middle of the floor space
Reuben Saltzman (25:24.982)
Yep, in the middle of the floor. So to be continued.
Tessa Murry (25:29.908)
my gosh. Wow. Okay, think about all the houses that have ductwork that’s running through floor cavities through framing members. It’s not actually ducted. know this is a thing that has evolved. I mean, I think the energy code required is that ductwork be ducted now and like especially in new construction, like if you’ve got ductwork going through unconditioned living space, like it has to be sealed and they’re doing aeroseal, all these things to make ductwork more tight.
But there’s so many houses that just use floor cavities for return ductwork, supply ductwork. Have you ever had problems living in any other older homes, like with the sneezing and stuff? Like I’m just wondering, what is it about this house and this duct space that’s making your nose go crazy? Because there’s so many other houses that, again, it’s got, I mean, the air circulating is kind of coming from all the nooks and crannies in the interstitial wall cavities.
Reuben Saltzman (26:08.962)
No, not like this. Not like this.
Reuben Saltzman (26:27.412)
Yeah, yeah agreed Tess. These are great questions.
Tessa Murry (26:28.768)
I don’t know. are… Okay, well, I… Will you please record when you open up your ceiling or your wall, your floor, whatever it is, and I want to see what’s in there. I’m so curious.
Reuben Saltzman (26:41.664)
Well, and if I need to hire you to get to the bottom of this, if I can’t figure it out, I might just hire you. You can come out and inspect it, okay? I’ve thought maybe I need to test it out here.
Tessa Murry (26:49.42)
Well, I hate I’m just as stumped. I’m just as stumped as you are. I’d be happy to be a sounding board with you on this one because you’re thinking through all the things that I’m thinking through. But it’s very, very interesting. Yeah. I wonder if you’ve got some other like allergy to the adhesive and like the OSB or something like that. I don’t know.
Reuben Saltzman (26:57.685)
Okay.
Reuben Saltzman (27:11.734)
Let’s hope not, because they don’t, that’s not a standard test they do. Yeah.
Tessa Murry (27:13.67)
Yeah. No, I know. And that’s why I would like it wouldn’t show up on anything. But okay, the dust. Yeah. Wow. Very interesting. So you’re just unplugging this sucker for now. You just spent $2,000. And you’re like, wow. You know, and here’s the here’s the irony too, about about all of this. It’s like, an HRV on paper in theory is supposed to provide balanced whole house
Reuben Saltzman (27:22.242)
But.
I unplugged it again and I’ve been fine ever since. Yep. Yep.
Tessa Murry (27:43.498)
ventilation that filters the air and it improves the air quality in your house and in re- and then in reality, in reality, how many times have you seen an HRV or ERV that is properly maintained, properly balanced, you know, working great and
Reuben Saltzman (27:47.444)
huh. Yes. And it makes you not get sick like this.
Tessa Murry (28:09.15)
Doing what it’s supposed to be doing most the time. I’d say that they have issues. They’re not balanced properly Maybe they’re pressurizing the house They’re actually and then people are using a lot of humidifiers and they’re like pushing moisture into the wall cavities and it’s creating mold problems and condensation problems or what or that you know, or you’ve got just systems that aren’t maintained properly and now you’ve got like mold growing inside the ERV or HRV and you’re just pumping all your air through that as well and you probably have mold other places if you’ve got mold and now you know anyways, it’s just
Reuben Saltzman (28:34.369)
Totally.
Tessa Murry (28:38.86)
You know, this is just, it’s kind of what I want to leave this podcast on a positive note, but the reality is there’s so many ways for these systems that you put in place to improve air quality that that can go wrong and they don’t actually improve air quality and they can make, make it worse.
Reuben Saltzman (28:56.466)
Yes. And you know, that it kind of touches on the topic we were going to talk about today. And let’s, we’ll have to follow up with another one very quickly. And what we were going to talk about is how the more energy efficient you make a home, the less durable that house is going to be, or at least you have the potential to make it less durable.
Tessa Murry (29:03.928)
Come on.
Yeah. Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (29:23.106)
I mean, you want to have a very durable house. have holes in the walls. Don’t insulate it. Don’t you? Okay. All right. I’m very tempted to get right into this. To be continued. We’re not going to talk about this right now.
Tessa Murry (29:23.81)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (29:29.494)
And.
Tessa Murry (29:35.918)
I know we did have a little exchange before this podcast and I said Ruben I could definitely go on a rant about this and it’s a very interesting subject. I know you’ve got stories, I’ve got stories, but the bottom line is you just, you know, as you make houses more energy efficient, you have to be extra careful and cautious about how you build them, materials you use and how they’re maintained. And it’s not always a happy ending. You have to.
Reuben Saltzman (29:42.88)
Yeah, I want to give you time.
Reuben Saltzman (30:04.471)
Yes.
Tessa Murry (30:05.676)
You have to be very cognizant and aware of all these things. So houses are complicated.
Reuben Saltzman (30:12.61)
All right, well that was a total tangent. I did not mean to discuss my HRV, but your story about the mold, maybe think of health issues and indoor air quality. But been, yeah, yeah, it’s.
Tessa Murry (30:19.798)
Yeah.
Man, I’m glad you shared. Yeah learning moments for all of us to hopefully someone listening to this podcast Has a has a takeaway from this and this is helpful for them as well
Reuben Saltzman (30:34.272)
Yeah. And you know, for the listeners, I would like to hear the dumbest thing that you’ve done on your house or some expensive piece of equipment that you’ve ruined to make me feel just a little less bad about myself. I’d like to hear some stories.
Tessa Murry (30:40.078)
I’m
Tessa Murry (30:48.014)
that’s what you get for being on Sudafed Benadryl and other medications all at once and trying to be proactive as you are.
Reuben Saltzman (30:53.378)
Oh, and yeah. And what’s so funny was like, I don’t know, is it ironic that I was taking all of those because my HRV was getting the best of me and then it really got the best of me because of this? Like, yeah, I don’t know. Terrible.
Tessa Murry (31:07.31)
You
my gosh. Terrible. I’m so sorry, Ruben. I’m glad you’re on the other side of it. I’m glad we’ve had some space and I’m glad you can talk about it now.
Reuben Saltzman (31:20.658)
I can talk about it now. It’s been enough time. Enough time has passed. Time heals all wounds. Yep. But, all right. Other stuff going on. There’s been a lot of travel. We had a family vacation. We were gone for a week. And then I was gone for a board meeting for the National Home Inspector Exam thing. Gone for a while there. And then gone again.
Tessa Murry (31:25.943)
man, I hear you. Thanks for sharing. Thanks for sharing.
Tessa Murry (31:36.014)
Mm.
Tessa Murry (31:45.856)
Okay. Was that international?
Reuben Saltzman (31:49.558)
it was not international. No. but, well, maybe it was, I don’t know. It was an interesting place. It was, it was fun. it was not on the continental US. I’ll, I’ll just leave it at that. I needed sunscreen. Yeah. Got a, got a little, got a little tan and then, and then just.
Tessa Murry (31:52.276)
Okay. I know they have meetings in some pretty interesting places. Okay, cool. Yeah.
Tessa Murry (32:03.246)
Did you need your sunscreen? Yeah. That’s good. Yeah, good.
Reuben Saltzman (32:14.464)
got back from Arkansas. was teaching at the Arkansas Home Inspectors Association. I can’t remember the acronym for it, but I was out there teaching and did eight hours tests. I’ve never taught for eight hours before. So that was a marathon. know, normally
Tessa Murry (32:22.318)
Okay.
Okay.
Tessa Murry (32:28.654)
That’s the first time you’ve done eight hours all at once? Okay. That, yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (32:33.994)
Yeah. I mean, not in one day. I split it up in two days, but normally if I go out to teach, I’m like four hours tops. And then I had one, one association convinced me to do six. And then these guys, I let them talk me into eight and it was a lot, but it was really good. I mean, had a lot of good discussion with those guys. Yeah.
Tessa Murry (32:37.408)
Okay, that’s a lot.
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (32:51.008)
You made it through. that’s great. What were the classes that you were teaching?
Reuben Saltzman (32:56.386)
It’s, you know, it’s the only three that I’ve written. I’ve got one that I do on water intrusion. It’s two hours. And then I’ve got another one where it’s focused on new construction. And then the four hour class is on old houses.
Tessa Murry (33:03.16)
Great class. Yep.
Tessa Murry (33:08.865)
Okay.
Reuben Saltzman (33:15.054)
And it’s, it’s all the stuff that we see on those. I was able to skip a lot of it because I kept asking the group like, all right, you guys have HRVs in your area, you know, a new construction. Like you guys have HRV. No. All right. Then we’ll skip it. You guys have fuel oil tanks. No. Okay. Then we’ll skip it. And I’m skipping like 20 slides at a time, just, you know, flying through topics, but I was, I still had no problem filling the time.
Tessa Murry (33:15.37)
Wow.
Tessa Murry (33:25.512)
Yeah. Nope. Skip it. No. huh. Yeah. Yeah.
And I’m sure they had interesting. Well, that’s great. Yeah, and it’s it, you know, teaching in person as you know, and I think you agree is always so much more fun than teaching on like zoom or to a screen where you have zero interaction. So did you have some good questions from people in Arkansas about like specific things that they see that are a problem they were bringing up in your class that you didn’t have any slides on? Like I’m curious what they were what they were concerned about.
Reuben Saltzman (33:52.777)
Yes.
Reuben Saltzman (33:57.779)
you
Reuben Saltzman (34:02.462)
yeah. yeah. We. Well, you know, it’s it’s not anything new. It’s all the same stuff that we end up looking at. mean, they’ve got a ton of vinyl siding. It was interesting because, you know, I I like to ask people during the class, all right, how many people use a moisture meter? And just about every class I teach, every hand goes up. Everybody’s using a moisture meter. All right.
Tessa Murry (34:11.265)
Okay.
Tessa Murry (34:16.104)
huh.
Tessa Murry (34:26.944)
Okay. Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (34:28.354)
And then how many of you pull back vinyl siding to look for, you know, a water resistant barrier to look for damage. think I had like two hands in the whole room go up. But by the time I was done with that class, I’m pretty sure there’s going to be a lot of people pulling back, you know, just not, taking it apart, but just taking a peek. So, you know, I
Tessa Murry (34:32.706)
Ooh.
Tessa Murry (34:40.546)
Wow. Wow.
Tessa Murry (34:48.908)
Peeking behind it. Yeah, was peeking. Yeah. Yeah. You don’t have to, you don’t have to pull the siding apart to just go to a seam and pull it open and see if there’s some sort of weather resistive barrier behind there. Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (35:00.97)
Yeah, yeah, at least check for that. And you end up getting more and more bold the more you do it. You go, okay, I’m going to pull this back a little bit more, especially when you get one of those one of those vinyl siding zip tools. Yeah. Yeah. Cause they make it so easy. So it was fun.
Tessa Murry (35:06.488)
Yeah.
Zip, zip tools. Yeah. Yeah. They do. Just don’t, just don’t do that when it’s minus 10 outside. Okay, people? Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (35:21.666)
I warned them. warned them. said vital siding gets very brittle, but y’all are lucky. You guys barely see freezing temperatures. And of course I got no, it gets colder than 30. Okay. All right. Yeah. Be careful when it gets cold. You don’t want to, you don’t want to damage the siding because now you got to replace it.
Tessa Murry (35:27.981)
Yeah.
we do. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. man.
Tessa Murry (35:41.688)
For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that’s good. Ruben, you’ve been busy and you’ve been all over, it sounds like, too, but you’ve been having fun at the same time, and that’s pretty cool. Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (35:51.148)
Yeah.
It’s been fun. you know what? One thing I wanted to come back to, cause I had a couple of people, some podcast listeners there who had asked about what’s going on with Ashy. You know, we did a podcast in early December talking about how Ashy was going to revise the standard of practice. And we were not a fan of the new revisions. Well, there was a town hall meeting that took place and a lot of people aired grievances with the new standards.
Tessa Murry (36:00.088)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (36:12.642)
Yeah. Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (36:22.194)
And they said, all right, well, we’re going to go back. We’re going to revise them more. And our advice was go back to the drawing board, start over. Haven’t heard a peep since. I have not heard a thing about the new standards. So my, my hope is that they really did go back to the drawing board and they’re starting from scratch with these new standards. then once they propose the newest revision, it’s going to be something much more palatable.
Tessa Murry (36:26.648)
Mm.
Tessa Murry (36:30.381)
Yeah.
really?
Okay.
Tessa Murry (36:39.852)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (36:43.992)
Wow.
Reuben Saltzman (36:49.974)
But just kind of a quick update for now, three months later, there is no update. We have not heard a thing on it. So I wanted to come back and touch on that because people were asking about it.
Tessa Murry (36:53.132)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (37:00.738)
Well, I appreciate that. Yeah, I appreciate that update. And if you hear anything or anything changes, let us know.
Reuben Saltzman (37:08.31)
Yeah, yeah, definitely will. All right. And then, okay, one more follow-up. One more follow-up. We talked about water heaters and anode rods and how, you know, they disintegrate. If you don’t know what I’m talking about, go back and listen to some episodes we had in December or maybe November. A little bit of a follow-up on that. I’ve helped a few people, family members, friends, coworkers, replace their anode rods.
Tessa Murry (37:11.096)
Cool.
Tessa Murry (37:15.841)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (37:19.682)
Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (37:37.154)
And in every case, there has been nothing left. We have had either a wire stick or no wire at all. It’s been completely gone. So this is a real thing. It’s happening all over. I’m not done. I will have probably a follow up blog post about a year from now sharing all of the photos I’ve taken and documenting what different cities it’s been in. But
Tessa Murry (37:37.772)
Really?
Tessa Murry (37:42.421)
No anode rod.
Tessa Murry (37:46.826)
and
Tessa Murry (38:02.606)
Hello.
And the age. mean, are these what’s the newest water heater that you’re finding that the anode rod is completely gone in?
Reuben Saltzman (38:06.501)
This is a thing.
Reuben Saltzman (38:13.25)
I have not had the opportunity to check one newer than my own mine was four years old and it was completely toast I haven’t looked at anything newer than that. I Like to you know, one in Maple Grove. That’s a year old two years old
Tessa Murry (38:19.672)
Okay. Yeah. That’s crazy. Okay.
Tessa Murry (38:28.686)
Yeah, yeah. Well, and for anybody listening, Maple Grove has really hard water and so it’s definitely difficult on these systems. yeah, it’s interesting because it sounds like you’ve done different water heaters from different cities with different water qualities and it would run into the same problem. very interesting. Well, I’m looking forward to that blog. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Cool.
Reuben Saltzman (38:34.039)
Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (38:38.806)
Definitely.
Reuben Saltzman (38:46.412)
Yep, yep, for sure.
So more to come in the future. Yeah. Yeah. Me too.
All right, well, I think that’s a show Tess. All right, this is gonna be a random IAQ problems in our own houses. That’s what this is all about.
Tessa Murry (38:58.359)
All right.
We’ve been talking for over 30 minutes. things. So thanks for listening, anybody that’s still out there. my gosh. Yeah. Yeah, totally. If anybody needs help finding a good air purifier, let me know. I did some serious research on that.
Reuben Saltzman (39:21.8)
Okay, all right. One more thing, Tess, since this is a grab box. Allison Bales, podcast guest, we’ve had him on the show. He’s got a blog called the Energy Vanguard Blog. And I remember he had instructions on how to create your own HEPA filter for your house. Are you familiar with that?
Tessa Murry (39:24.792)
Yeah.
Yes. Yeah.
Tessa Murry (39:34.144)
Mm-hmm.
Tessa Murry (39:38.348)
Yes.
The Rosenthal? What’s it called? Rosenthal box or something? Well, something like that. Yes, you can. And it’s basically you just take a big box fan and you use like a Merv 11 or 13 filter to build a box around it so that it’s basically sucking in air through these really good filters and then pushing it out into the house. So yes.
Reuben Saltzman (39:44.342)
That’s it! You got a great memory. I couldn’t even remember what it was called.
Reuben Saltzman (40:01.058)
Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (40:08.128)
Yeah, exactly.
Tessa Murry (40:10.752)
That is, yes, I did look at that too. I’m like, do I want to build my own? Do I want to do this? And for a lot of different reasons, I decided not to do that. This was something that was going to be visible in the middle of the living room, in the bedroom. I wanted to be able to move it around, make it portable. And so I went with something that was more, just more compact, more, you know, I guess easy to use, easy to, easy to…
Reuben Saltzman (40:13.515)
Okay.
Reuben Saltzman (40:20.053)
Okay.
Reuben Saltzman (40:24.458)
Tessa Murry (40:40.44)
have running in the middle of the house and not just this giant big box thing that was, you know, ugly. So that’s what I went with. Yep. And it’s got HEPA filters. It also has charcoal filters, which help with smell. And there were some other chemical smells and smells going on. So I wanted that feature too as well. and it’s, you know, apparently we’ve only had to clean it a couple of times. You do need to clean the pre-filter and the sensor on it every couple of weeks, but the HEPA and the charcoal are
Reuben Saltzman (40:44.222)
Makes perfect sense. Yes. Okay. All right.
Reuben Saltzman (40:56.49)
Okay. Okay. All right.
Tessa Murry (41:08.374)
in theory good for about a year, so that’s kind of nice too.
Reuben Saltzman (41:12.373)
Okay. All right. I just curious if you’d looked into it. Sounds like you did and you made an educated decision. Yeah, but you know, I don’t think my wife would care for that sitting in the middle of the living room. It is not a good looking device. It would be fine in a garage.
Tessa Murry (41:13.591)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (41:17.204)
I did, I did. If I was you, I probably would have built three of them, but… But I’m not…
Tessa Murry (41:26.7)
Probably not. Yeah, probably not. Now, did you think about doing it in your office when you’re having these sneezing attacks where like, just want to do one room where it’s like super clean air and I’m try this? Do you ever think about that?
Reuben Saltzman (41:41.704)
No, but my wife did buy me a room filter. She, yeah, yeah, she bought this thing that sits on my desktop. She like, this will help. It didn’t help, but we tried it. I tried.
Tessa Murry (41:46.26)
Really? Okay. Did. okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, interesting. Okay. Well, hey, this was fun. Thanks for listening, anybody. If you’ve got ideas on podcast topics to talk about or discuss for us to dive into research, whatever, or guess how do they get ahold of us Ruben?
Reuben Saltzman (42:11.143)
Email us podcast at structure tech.com. And I was serious when I said, want to hear your stories on the most expensive thing on your house that you ruined. If I get enough response, that might just be enough for a show that I think it sounds delightful. I would like to hear about it. Yeah.
Tessa Murry (42:26.072)
Yes.
I do too. Yeah, you know, we did a show like that in the very beginning with like home inspector whoopsies. Mistakes we’ve done as home inspectors or problems we’ve, you know, created disasters. But yeah, as a homeowner, this could be a fun one. Please let us know if you have your own story to share.
Reuben Saltzman (42:36.0)
Yeah, yeah we did.
Reuben Saltzman (42:45.858)
Yeah, and either you can choose to give me your name and I will announce it on the show or you could remain anonymous. I will make up a name for you. Your choice. All right.
Tessa Murry (42:54.456)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (42:59.101)
that sounds good. All right. Well, thanks, Ruben. It’s been good. See good chatting with you catching up. Good to see you. Look forward to next time.
Reuben Saltzman (43:05.312)
Great to catch up. Listeners, thanks for putting up with our small talk. And we will catch you next week where we’re going to talk about durability and energy efficiency and how the two are related. That’s it. Catch you next week. Take care.
Tessa Murry (43:21.139)
Mm-hmm. That’ll be fun. Take care.