One of the most common defects at old Minneapolis and Saint Paul houses is a missing cleanout plug in the floor drain. When we find this during a Truth In Sale of Housing Evaluation in Minneapolis, it’s actually a required repair item. A missing cleanout plug can allow hazardous sewer gas into the home and often indicates a clogged floor drain. To learn why and how, read on.
Every plumbing fixture has a trap. A plumbing trap prevents foul-smelling sewer gas from entering a home. The image below shows a P-trap, which can be found at sinks, showers, and bathtubs.
The left side of the trap connects to the plumbing fixture, and the right side connects to the sewer. The ‘sewer’ side will have sewer gases present, but the water at the bottom of the trap prevents sewer gases from entering the building.
Floor drains are no exception. The photo below shows a floor drain viewed from the side.
The shaded portion shows the trap where water will always sit, which prevents sewer gas from entering the building. When you look at an installed floor drain, all that you typically see is the grill on top; the rest of the drain is always buried in the basement floor.
What if the drain is clogged?
Floor drains clogs happen in two places; one is the trap itself, and the other is a clog in the line downstream from the drain. To know the difference, try removing the cleanout plug; it’s that thing I circled in the photo below.
This will allow water to drain past the trap, through the area highlighted below.
If you remove this plug and water drains properly, you have a problem with the trap, and your best bet is to use a drain auger to clean out the trap. As long as someone didn’t pour concrete or tile grout down the drain, it shouldn’t be a big deal to fix this. If you remove the cleanout plug and water still doesn’t drain, you have a problem with the drain line downstream from the trap. Try using a drain auger to clean out the line by pushing it through the cleanout hole.
When this plug is removed, however, sewer gas will enter the building. After you’ve cleaned the drain, be sure to put the cleanout plug back into place. You don’t want stinky sewer gas coming into your home.
What if the cleanout plug is missing?
If you have an existing floor drain with a missing cleanout plug, it usually means one of two things:
- The drain was clogged, someone removed the cleanout plug to clean the drain, and they forgot to replace the plug.
- The bottom of the trap is clogged, and someone removed the cleanout plug to allow water to drain directly into the sewer, instead of going through the trap.
To know the difference, take a look at the water level. If the water is right at the cleanout hole, you have a clogged trap that needs service. If the water level is a couple of inches below the cleanout hole, you should be fine. All you need to do is replace the cleanout plug.
On some older floor drains, the threads that used to accept a cleanout plug are damaged or badly rusted, so it’s impossible to screw in a new cleanout plug. The right way to fix this is to install a rubber plug. One type of plug is a piece of rubber sandwiched between two pieces of metal that expand the rubber when tightened together. The two photos below show a rubber plug before it’s tightened and after it’s tightened.
Another type of rubber plug can be found at Real-Tite Plugs – a company located in Golden Valley.
When the cleanout plug is missing it needs to be replaced, and the floor drain may need to be cleaned out or replaced. If the drain cannot be cleaned, the entire floor drain needs to be replaced.
Joe
January 25, 2012, 5:14 pm
This is great info. I hope you can help me.
My 1956 ranch in Milwaukee has two floor drains and two sump pump crocks. Is it possible to close off or seal one of the floor drains? If so, how? I would like to finish the basement off and am not sure what to do with the floor drain. Any advice would be welcome.
Thanks
Reuben Saltzman
January 30, 2012, 8:24 pm
Hi Joe,
The most common way of sealing off a floor drain is to fill it with concrete.
Henry
January 30, 2012, 7:05 pm
Hello, Reuben, glad I found your blog. Learned more here then hours scouring the web. (and I am in no ways a search novice)
I have some concerns about a house I purchased 18 months ago. I have had a bad smell coming from the basement for the past few months on and off. Cross between a sewer smell and seaweed. (If that make sense)
I have what I thought was a total of 4 drains, but after reading here, it seams that I have two drains and two cleanout plugs?
Here is the second drain. Not really having any problems here:
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/johnnypraze/IMG_2488.jpg
The opening on the left is the actual pipe and the hole on the right is filled with water like a trap.
This is where my HVAC system drains:
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/johnnypraze/IMG_2490.jpg
This is the trap pictured on the right:
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/johnnypraze/IMG_2492.jpg
Henry
January 30, 2012, 7:13 pm
This is the first drain and where my smell seems to be coming from:
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/johnnypraze/IMG_2475.jpg
Same layout, but backwards as I am facing the other direction. Trap with water on the left, actual pipe on the right.
This is the pipe:
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/johnnypraze/IMG_2476.jpg
While taking pictures I notced the following in the pipe:
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/johnnypraze/IMG_2494.jpg
Digging away revealed this:
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/johnnypraze/IMG_2496.jpg
Not sure if that is a root or piece of the pipe. I cut at it with a knife, but it felt more like ceramic then wood.
I never have any type of drainage problems or a wet basement. Just the smell. Should the holes revealing the actual pipe be sealed off with more then just a grate?
Henry
January 30, 2012, 7:17 pm
Starting to wonder if this is the reason I am always so tired… Looking forward to your response.
Reuben Saltzman
January 30, 2012, 8:28 pm
Hi Henry,
Those are some unusual drain setups. To know if you have sewer gas coming in, try filling up a nearby plumbing fixture (such as your laundry sink) with water, and then listening carefully at the floor drain to see if you can hear the water draining. If you can hear the water at the floor drain, you have an untrapped opening.
For any drains that aren’t being regularly used, try sealing off the holes to see if the odors go away. Let me know what you find out.
– Reuben
Guy
February 5, 2012, 3:07 pm
Hi Reuben,
This is a great thread! I had a plugged drain in my furnace room that was for the condensate from the heat pump and the water softener. It was plugged when i bought the house. The softener was not in use and there was some evidence that there had been water in the carpet in the past. When getting the heat pump replaced I decided to finally try to fix the floor drain. I had tried to snake it out several times in the past with a powered snake. I never got past the p-trap. It turned out the P-trap had rusted metal in it. the floor drain was almost rusted completely away and I guess it all went down the drain and clogged the trap. I ended up jack hammering up the floor and replacing the trap. Now I am at the point where I have the new pipe with gravel around it, but don’t know much about concrete or what type to use. I want to make it look as good as I can. Do you have any suggestions?
Reuben Saltzman
February 5, 2012, 4:02 pm
Hi Guy,
I’m no concrete expert, but I have done it. I just used the cheap 80 lb bag of concrete mix, poured it in the floor, and made it nice and smooth with a trowel, making sure that the lowest point was at the drain. It turned out looking fine, but not fantastic.
Guy
February 6, 2012, 9:40 am
Reuben,
Thanks I will give it a try tonight! Hopefully I can make it look pretty good!
Thanks
Guy
Steve Robison
February 6, 2012, 12:48 pm
Dear Saltzman,
How are you? Ok here we go: 900 sq ft house with finished basement built in 1965 Ann Arbor, MI. Basement is carpeted, no padding just utility carpet. Kitchen sink drains down the main line and the water ends up backing up into the utility sink in the laundry room right below it. Tried hand snake attached to a power drill with minimal results. BUT, my main problem is, I can’t find ANY main, floor, house drains to unscrew and clean out! My neighbor has the same house since they’re cookie cutter houses and his are in plain view sticking up above the basement floor. I looked under my stairs, in the storage room, everywhere and their just aren’t any in sight. The only thing I can think of it that they’re flush to the concrete under the carpet? I don’t mind cutting away the carpet to look for them as I THINK I know where they might be from the noise the metal drain cover makes when I step on it. Thanks for your time. –Steve Robison–
Reuben Saltzman
February 7, 2012, 5:54 am
Steve – don’t mess around with trying to locate and open up your floor drain. The previous owner probably filled it in because it was backing up sewage, just like the utility sink is now. The difference is that you’d have sewage on your floor, not just in your sink.
I think you should just hire a drain cleaning service to snake out your drain; they’re not that expensive.
If you’re set on doing it yourself, go rent a professional drain auger. I’ve never had good luck with those little hand snakes attached to power drills, but the professional drain augers have always worked for me.
– Reuben
Amanda
February 19, 2012, 9:01 pm
This is one of the most helpful articles I have found. Thank you SO much 🙂
GML
February 26, 2012, 11:26 am
I have a floor drain that seems to be running slow…usually only when the washer empties a small amount of water will back up onto the floor. Do you recommend snaking or would a flat sewer rod be as effective?
Reuben Saltzman
February 26, 2012, 11:42 am
GML – yes, I would definitely recommend snaking the drain out. I had the same problem at my last house, and I had to snake the drain out about every two years.
GML
February 26, 2012, 11:47 am
Thanks for the fast reply…I just did it last year and was thinking that a 50 ft sewer rod would be as effective.
Henry
February 26, 2012, 12:36 pm
Hey Reuben,
Wanted to give you an update on my findings from last month. My guess is someone added the openings next to the trapped drains or the drains themselves at a later point in time. The openings in the floor beside the drains with the traps are openings of the main line exiting the house to the sewer system. I have a vent and clean out plug out in the yard.
I guess there is something wrong with the vent/trap outside as to why I am getting smell in the basement. I have since made a DIY plug for the opening and the smell has gone away. (I wasn’t getting smell from the other because someone installed a bell trap as scene in the picture.)
But both openings could use an item I found at the hardware store called a saddleback clamp.
http://images.meredith.com/diy/images/2009/02/p_SCP_137_09.jpg
Both sections just have the top part of the pipe cut off for access, there isn’t any type of T fitting. I may bust up the floor in the future and install these clamps so the pipe is sealed and has two dedicated cleanout plugs that screw in.
Reuben Saltzman
March 2, 2012, 4:21 am
Thanks for the update, Henry.
Rebecca
March 1, 2012, 10:15 pm
Hi Reuben, I hope you can help with an issue I’m experiencing. I’ve found that after someone pops and flushes the toilet, a few ours later a sewer gas smell comes from my basement floor drain and then the smell travels through the heat vents throughout the house. This only happens after someone pops and flushes it. I do pour water in the drain and flush the toilets often to flush it through. Sometimes the drain does dry out even after I pour water in it. I have no water backup and everything seems to be working okay, just a bad smell that hangs around a day or so after someone pops. Any ideas?
Reuben Saltzman
March 2, 2012, 4:23 am
Rebecca – if the water in your floor drain dries out quickly, it’s probably leaking through the bottom of the floor drain. Try completely covering the drain in a temporary manner to see if that fixes your problem. For instance, try completely covering the opening with duct tape. If that fixes your odor problem, you know the issue is your floor drain.
Rebecca
March 4, 2012, 9:07 pm
Hi Reuben, I covered the drain as you suggested and everything seemed okay till someone had to poo then the smell came back again. I see the plug in the drain and I don’t think the drain dried out. The smell will go away after it flushes through the system however it will come back again after someone goes poo again. It’s strange because the smell does not begin till a few hours after someone has gone to the bathroom. There is no backup at all and everything seems to be working fine. Do you think the plug might be bad letting the smell in or could there be a clog? I guess it might be time to call a plumber. I’m nervious to call a plumber because I don’t have expertise in this area and I won’t know if what they are telling me is correct.
Thanks for the help Rebecca
tom
March 12, 2012, 11:04 pm
Hi Reuben I was wanting to finish my basement but the floor drain I have is right in the center of the basement twords the front of my home next to the water line that comes into the house. The water line is close enough to the wall that I can hide it but the drain is about 3ft out from the wall where I want to lay carpet. What I want to know is would it be okay or up to code if I was to tear up the floor and tie in a new floor drain at the back of the house where the soil pipe runs down from the first floor and then just concrete over the old one ? or would this cause drainage issues ?I believe the original drain was put there because it is the closest part of the house to the street where the drain runs to the sewers. I mean is it okay to change the drain location
Reuben Saltzman
March 13, 2012, 3:52 am
Hi Tom,
Here in Minnesota, it’s perfectly fine to change the location of the floor drain, or even get rid of the floor drain if you want.
Meghan
April 3, 2012, 9:45 am
Hi Reuben! When I turn on my attic fan I notice a terrible sewer smell. After doing some investigating, I found that the smell is coming from the floor drain in my basement. I poured water down the drain and the smell was a little more tolerable but I could still smell it. Someone told me to pour antifreeze down the floor drain. Is that an alright thing to do? Do you have any suggestions?
Reuben Saltzman
April 3, 2012, 9:53 am
Hi Meghan – lots of floor drains are just plain stinky. Cleaning it with bleach might help with the odor. As far as the anti-freeze, go for it. Just use RV anti-freeze. Anti-freeze won’t evaporate.
drainage experts Sonoma
April 9, 2012, 1:53 am
Your post can help many home owners in influencing them to know the proper way of maintaining their floor drains. This can in turn prevent further accumulation of debris that can affect the plumbing and drainage system. Thanks for sharing!
Val
April 21, 2012, 8:03 pm
Hi Reuben
Water from my kitchen sink is coming up the floor drain. The kitchen is directly above the furnace room where the floor drain is. When I just run water down the kitchen sink for a long time there is no problem with the drain. When I fill the sink then unplug it the larger volume of water causes the problem and floods the furnace room floor.
Any idea what the problem might be??
Reuben Saltzman
April 23, 2012, 3:54 am
Val – The drain line is partially clogged. You need to have it cleaned out.
– Reuben
Allison
May 2, 2012, 7:11 am
Hi Reuben,
Last night the floor drain in our laundry room backed up with this black crud. It doesn’t smell like sewage, more like chlorine. When it backed up we were running a medium load of laundry. I’ve run several loads since and it hasn’t happened again. We have had a lot of rain this week, but we’ve had more in the past and never had an issue. My question is actually two fold. First is the obvious, how can I prevent it from happening again? The second is how do I get that awful chemical smell out of the clothes that got wet? I’ve soaked them over night, and washed them several times, and nothing is working. I really don’t want to have to throw them away, one pile that got wet was my husbands dress shirts. Thank you for you help!
Reuben Saltzman
May 4, 2012, 4:18 am
Hi Allison,
I’m stumped. Having a lot of rain shouldn’t affect your floor drain; if it does, you probably have a hole in the drain line that runs under the house, as well as a partially blocked drain line.
Val
May 5, 2012, 4:15 pm
Thanks Ruben, you were right and I did get the line cleaned out and it is all good now.
Thanks
Val
Karen
May 14, 2012, 4:18 pm
Hi, I am n deep trouble. We bought the home we live in 9 years ago, built in 1973, we live in rural St. Louis MO. After the first week we moved in our basement flooded, we had a plumber go o top of the house and ran a snake from the stake vented out from the roof all the way down and out to the street, the problem went away after that for a couple of years and then came back with a vengance. It flooded so bad in our basement that we had to have more than half of the floors and walls replaced, it was snaked again and I thought the problem was solved. Well that was 9 months ago and it happened again, this time we caugt it before it travled out beyond the furnance room.
We have had the raw sewage smell when you run the sinks, and earth dirt coming out of the bathtub in the basement. I have family that is coming in town and the only place I can put them is in the basement but before they get here I want to have this problem taken care of once and for all.
What would you suggest? I am thinking of a video scope of all drains but will that go into the P traps and show if there is any damage?
Thank you for reading my long story.
Karen
Christine
May 17, 2012, 1:21 am
I have a sewer clean-out with the cap in place in my family room, in a remodeled basement that smells like mildew. We purchased the house (built in 1976) and moved into it in January, it had been vacant for about 18 months. At that time the sewer backed up and we had someone out to clear the lines and haven’t had trouble since. It seems strange to me that what appears to be a sealed and closed up pipe could be a source of the mildew smell. I’ve smelled the nearby outlets thinking the smell could be coming from inside the wall, the carpet and the whole general vicinity, but it really seems to just be coming from the clean-out pipe. There is no moisture anywhere that I can detect and though we are in Washington state we live on the dry eastern side so there is no dampness to speak off. The laundry room on the other side of the wall where the small amount of flooding <1inch actually occurred smells fine. Any suggestions?
Reuben Saltzman
May 17, 2012, 3:32 am
Karen – I would suggest doing exactly what you’re thinking. Hire someone to run a camera down the main building drain to figure out what the problem is. That won’t cover all the P-traps, but from what you’re telling me, it sounds like you have a problem with your main building drain.
shawn
May 19, 2012, 6:41 pm
Hi thanks for the info! My basement floor drain has been stinking. My drain goes straight down which i guess is the trap. It holds water. Then above it i have a random line coming into the drain and directly across from it one line exiting. From the sound of it it sounds like the outgoing line would be a cleanout and should be plugged. I dont want water to back up into the incoming side of the pipe. When i fill the drain it comes up to the higher lines and stays there. Then the water slowly drains to just a bit in the trap. What can i do to stop the smell?
Reuben Saltzman
May 20, 2012, 5:54 am
Christine – no, I don’t have any great suggestions for you.
Shawn – what you’re describing sounds like a missing cleanout plug. Can you send me a photo?
Nanette
June 11, 2012, 2:30 pm
How important are basement floor drains?
My husband and I added a bathroom to the basement of our 1930 bungalow a couple of years ago. At the time, we discovered the nearest floor drain was non-functioning and without a P-trap and I couldn’t convince hubby to replace it. (He had already done the concrete busting/digging/hauling, not including that section and a plumber installed the new lines, cutting off and bypassing the old drain before hubby laid new concrete).
Recently, we had to install drain tiles and a sump pump and had the workers cut open the old floor drain while they were at it. The washer and dryer are now located next to that floor drain, and if the washer ever overflowed or there were bathroom or other flooding issues, the water would have no place to go.
We are finding it challenging to connect a new floor drain in that location to tie into the existing drains, which accommodate basement shower, kitchen sink and dishwasher (upstairs), as well as the clothes washer. These all come down vertically through the wall behind the washer and dryer, except for the shower on the other side of the wall, which connects in horizontally, closer to the main soil stack. At present, all fixtures include traps and vents, are to code and passed inspection.
The horizontal drain pipes run the opposite direction…not under the washer, toward the floor drain, but under the bathroom floor toward the soil stack and sewer line which runs out the back (west end) of the house toward the alley. There is an elbow where we need to tie in (from vertical to horizontal). The floor drain would be at the farthest point from the sewer main in the basement plumbing drainage system (Since hubby didn’t want it, plumber didn’t account for future installment when adjusting slope of drain pipes from washer, etc.)
There is a floor drain on the back end of the house, but the floor is poured separately there, offset up about 1/2 to 3/4″, then sloping toward the drain in the northwest quarter. The bathroom is in the middle of the south side of the basement. The floor drain we have dug out is about 3-feet from the bathroom door, closer to the east/front end of the house.
Is it worth the trouble to tie in the floor drain, insuring proper slope, trap, etc? Or are we being paranoid about the need for it? During the remodel project, our clay tile sewer line busted out in the alley (probably from trash truck traffic) and that floor drain backed up while it was still connected, plus the one on the west end. The flooding which caused us to put in drain tile was from heavy rain which seeped up through cracks in the concrete floor under the carpet on the east end, but it subsided before it ever made it as far as the drain location would be (carpet was ruined).
So we have a history of water problems, but will we make it worse by giving the sewer a place to back up into, or make things worse by not having a place from water to drain from in the event of flooding? (Sewer line was fixed at our expense, but we’re at a point of needing to snake again).
Reuben Saltzman
June 14, 2012, 7:09 pm
Nanette – I think you’re mostly being paranoid about needing the floor drain. If I were you, I wouldn’t put one in.
Susan Kennedy
June 24, 2012, 1:33 pm
Hi. Have just began experiencing slight leaking from the drain line off the furnace/ac unit. The leak is occurring right above the concrete flooring where the pipe is directed into the floor. The original pipe is copper. The drain pipes from the interior unit are PVC, connected/secured to the copper with proper fitting clamp. What is the best, least expensive fix? Could we use the expandable polyurethane foam to fix the leak? Obviously the only time this happens is when the ac unit is running. Thanks for any/all suggestions you can offer to fix this problem.
Reuben Saltzman
June 24, 2012, 7:10 pm
Hi Susan,
Please send me a photo or two of the leak, and maybe I’ll be able to recommend a repair. Expandable foam would definitely not be a good fix.
– Reuben
Leigh Spear
June 25, 2012, 6:58 pm
Hi Reuben-
I live in a house built in the late 70’s. We have a 3/4 bath in our basement that badly needs remodeled. It had an alcove shower stall in it that wasn’t attached to anything. The shower drain was just set over the existing floor drain. We took it out and cleaned up the area. We never used it. I would like to put a proper shower stall in there using direct-to-stud install. My problem is the drain. It already has a p trap and a clean out. How do I tie a shower drain into it? I want this shower to go directly over it.
Also to make things more interesting. The center of the floor drain is 17 inches from the stud wall. The kit I want to use requires 18 inches. Since the floor drain has the bigger top opening, is there some way I can move the top of the shower connection over that necessary inch?
I hope to start work in a couple of weeks. What do I need to do?
Reuben Saltzman
June 25, 2012, 7:39 pm
Hi Leigh,
I’m having a tough time following. You say you had a shower drain set over the existing floor drain, and that the existing floor drain has a p-trap and cleanout… and a concrete floor, I assume? If that’s the case, you could tile right up to the floor drain.
If you want to use a kit, you’d probably need to convert to the floor drain to a proper shower drain, which would involve breaking up the concrete floor and completely re-doing the drain.
– Reuben
Dave
June 28, 2012, 11:18 pm
Reuben:
Great blog / info.
My basement floor drain needs replacing, and I’m debating doing it myself vs. hiring a plumber. (Yes, I’m capable, but I’m getting the feeling that specific experience with this task is best for taking this on.)
You mention a couple of times in this thread that replacing the floor drain is expensive. I’m getting the hint that you purposely haven’t noted a number, but I’m gonna ask anyway. What can one expect to pay an experienced plumber to do this job?
I’m in Colorado, but Minneapolis numbers would be just fine. I’m just trying to get a ballpark number for thinkin’ purposes.
Please let me know if you need further info about my situation, and thanks for any help you can provide.
Reuben Saltzman
June 29, 2012, 4:04 am
Hi Dave,
I remember one plumber quoting $2,000 to replace a floor drain; not for any specific house, just as a general guideline. I think he may have been a little more expensive that most others, but replacing a basement floor drain is a long process.
Break up the concrete floor, dig out the dirt around the drain, cut out the drain, install the new one, backfill for proper support, mix up and pour new concrete for the floor, clean everything up when done… it’s a fairly involved project.
Dave
June 29, 2012, 12:44 pm
Reuben:
Ouch! Thinkin’ that hard hurts. But, that’s what I needed to know.
Now I think I’ll think some more.
Thanks for your help.
charles
July 5, 2012, 6:55 am
i have a broke drain line under slab in kitchen pipe is cast iron would you do a bypass i think if i break slab i will find more than broke pipe beleve the whole pipe is bad slab is craked gas and water cumming up through floor i live in north louisiana
Reuben Saltzman
July 7, 2012, 6:00 am
Charles – I think you should hire a professional to fix it.
Kellie
July 6, 2012, 1:03 pm
I have a floor drain that is backing up whenever we flush the toilet, drain dishwater, run the shower and especiallly running the washer…the washing machine drain pipe is not routed into the main drain, rather the drain pipe is set up to empty directly into the floor drain. I think that the main drainpipe in the house is clogged somewhere after where the floor drain links in because everything is backing up out of the floor drain. I had a similar problem back in Decemer; it was suspected at that time that a main pipe was collapsed so I had a camera scope done. No collapse at all, they said the main pipe going out to the sewer was in good shape. I suspect that the main drain is clogged again; the local hardware store rents out large plumbing snakes. Do you think that snaking will work? And how do I get the water out of the basement? It was suggested that once the drain is snaked out and draining properly, wait for the standing water to drain and make sure that the “crud” in the basement from it backing up is kept away from the drain to let the water go down, then once the water itself drains, clean up the sludge with shovels and buckets/heavy duty trash bags and disposed of, then scrub the entire basement floor with bleach to prevent molding. Opinions or advice? I would also like to add that I am on a severely restricted budget….
Reuben Saltzman
July 7, 2012, 5:59 am
Hi Kellie,
As long as you rent a large enough snake, that will probably work. As for getting water out of the basement, once the clog has been taken care of, it should all drain back down the floor drain. The rest of your ideas for cleaning up are right on.
– Reuben
Heather Tomi
July 12, 2012, 4:00 pm
We are having a house built and are having them put a corner shower in the garage. The garage was suppose to be 21′ deep flat surface. Instead it is 19′ deep flat then a 4″ elevated area that makes up the other 2′ of depth. The builder is telling us the shower had to be elevated for the P trap to be installed. I think the guys who did the foundation added the extra 2′ to the inside of the home instead of the garage and when the framers framed correctly it left the elevated area. The elevated area is right where the footer is poured and the builder said if we wanted the elevated area cut out he could do that, he planned on doing it anyway. Who would lay a concrete footer and plan to cut it out? There are several other errors in the plumbing/framing and I have a feeling the builder is just telling us this so he doesnt have to redo it. Your thoughts please? Many Thanks!
Reuben Saltzman
July 12, 2012, 7:43 pm
Hi Heather – based on what you’re telling me, it sounds to me like this didn’t go as planned. Has the concrete been poured? If so, why wouldn’t they put in the drain before pouring the concrete?
Heather Tomi
July 13, 2012, 7:44 am
Hi Reuben. Thanks for answering. Yes the concrete has been poured. There is a drain in place approximately 4 feet from the back garage wall 2 feet away from the elevated area. I have pictures of when it was just rock of the drail but there is rock covering it and I cannot tell whether or not the P trap is there. My guess is that it is because the plumber thought he was putting it in the right place. The foundation guys just forgot to push the concrete footer and concrete block wall along the back of the garage 2 feet back like they were suppose to and now the builder is trying to cover it up. I am just unsure how to prove it? We love the house and want to keep it but just want them to fix it or make some concessions for the mistakes that were made. Any further advice? Many Thanks!!!!
Reuben Saltzman
July 14, 2012, 5:51 am
Heather – do you have plans/drawings that you could use to compare?
Stephanie Berg
July 19, 2012, 7:17 pm
We bought a house 4 months ago. Started using the central air and the water hose drains into the basement floor drain. But it is completely clogged and nothing goes down. We snaked the clean out pipe that had a cap in place, water drains through that fine. But when we put that cap back on, it won’t drain through the p trap and we can’t get a snake to go down into the p trap because it’s a hard angle and there is a ball in place. Any suggestions?
Reuben Saltzman
July 20, 2012, 4:06 am
Stephanie – I’ve never tried cleaning out a floor drain with a ball in it. I suggest you call a plumber.
If you’re not keen on that idea, here’s my two cents: some floor drains can be taken apart so the ball can be removed, but I’m sure you already checked that. I would try destroying the ball to get it out. Again, I have no experience doing this, but I’m thinking a small torch might work well to make a hole in the ball, and from there you shouldn’t have much trouble mangling it enough to get it out. If you still can’t get the floor drain cleaned out after that, you would probably need to replace it.
If
Michael Moore
July 30, 2012, 7:19 am
We bought a 1947 brick home in northwest Ohio with an unfinished basement and are nearly done working to convert one end to a guest suite, the other end to a model train room, and the middle to remain unfinished for storage and utilities. Each of these areas has a functioning floor drain, and we’re just about to put carpet down, but we’re being urged to make the drains accessible so we can put water in the trap. Reading this discussion leads me to think that using some RV antifreeze may help, but should we still have the contractor make a section of carpet removable in order to access the drains? Are there other measures you’d suggest?
Diana
July 30, 2012, 8:38 am
Hi Reuben,
I recently purchased a 40-yr old home that did have previous occupants. I’ve noticed a sewer smell radiating throughout the house but I’ve noticed the second story bathroom stinks the worst. Whenever I open the under sink vanity the smell is almost unbearable. I tried pouring water down the only floor drain in our basement and that didn’t seem to fix the problem so I had a plumber come by the house and they couldn’t pinpoint an exact problem but mentioned that the ventilation was not properly done and said this is why the smell is being carried up all the way to the second floor bath. I guess the basement bath and 2nd floor bath share a vent. The cost estimated was $570 to address the ventilation issue. I called another plumber for a second opinion but they said they do not give free estimates for sewer smells since it could be a host of problems but the company told me anywhere from $500 to $1000 just to do the investigation to find out where the problem is (they mentioned something about peppermint and snaking cameras down the drain, seeing if the ventilation was blocked, etc.) I have yet to check on the drain plug that is discussed in the above posts but is paying to have the ventilation fixed a good start, do you have any recommendations on things I can try on my own as well?
Your help is greatly appreciated!
Reuben Saltzman
July 30, 2012, 3:09 pm
Michael – if you’re going to carpet over the drains, what’s the point of having them accessible? I would just plug the drains off and carpet over them.
Reuben Saltzman
July 30, 2012, 3:12 pm
Diana – sorry, no suggestions of things you can do on your own. I don’t blame the one plumber for saying $500 – $1000 to diagnose the problem; that’s where most of the work will probably be required. In the end, the repair might require opening up a wall or ceiling to find where the problem is located.
Randy Moe
August 11, 2012, 9:34 am
Hi,
I am in Chicago 10 year old warehouse work/live artist condo conversion. I am installing 2 large darkroom sinks. I need to drain them. Right near them is 4″ threaded clean out pipe. It goes straight down 4′ and feels like a 90 turns to the main building sewer line exit for the building. There is no up vent. I am planning to test flow with clean water. If this pipe flows good is there any reason not to drain this way? My other alternatives are not so neat. One would be to drain to the bathtub through a wall. The other is lift the water heater up 6 inches do I could drain to the existing floor drain under the water heater. And again need to punch a wall. I did a lot of process water plumbing in a factory where we simply put our warm water down a similar open pipe. When I opened the condo floor drain it was dry to the bottom and no smell. Any thoughts?
Reuben Saltzman
August 12, 2012, 6:41 am
Hi Randy,
That 4″ cleanout is probably for the main building drain. If there were ever any issues with the main building drain, this would need to be accessible.
Without having a separate vent, you would have the potential for water to get siphoned out of the trap(s) in your sinks, which could allow sewer gas in to the home. Nevertheless, your other options don’t sound any better. Using that 4″ cleanout opening sounds like your best option.
Randy Moe
August 12, 2012, 7:50 am
Hi Reuben,
Thanks for your quick reply. I agree my other options are poor. Another question is. Does each sink need it’s own p-trap?
Regarding the main drain building access, we have been there. Just weeks after initial occupancy 10 years ago we had sewer backup issues in all units upstream of me. The original plumbers snaked and used cameras. The city tore up the street right outside my unit 3 times. Finally it was decided we needed to dig up the sewer pipe under my bedroom, now the darkroom. This was a new slab, new beautiful floor and all new plumbing. They dug down 10 feet to reach the main pipe. Upon opening the pipe they removed a 10×12 foot piece of plastic sheeting. It was stuffed into the building main sewer exit pipe. Obviously sabotage! I have pictures and lived in the unit while all this went on. As urban pioneers it was speculated the neighbors did it, or workers mad at the contractor and developer. Regardless it was a huge mess and resolved a huge problem. I should know those pipes better, but my pictures inside the hole are poor and memory worse. One ongoing issue is the plumbing documentation of existing and new pipes is non-existent. Giving work to the lowest bidder is a really bad idea. Having corrupt building inspectors is even worse. There was a major scandal at the time of this construction throughout the City of Chicago.
We have survived many building issues. We also had to replace the”new” roof at 2 years and flat roof drainage is not ideal. This project was a conversion and combining of three 110 year old factories into one building. We will be having more special assessments.Despite all this only 2 units have turned over!
Thanks again!
Randy Moe
August 12, 2012, 7:19 pm
I’m back. Not good news I am afraid. The ‘clean out’ I was going to use is a dead end. I found pictures I took during construction and I see a standing pipe screwed into that clean out. It was removed before drywall and the hole in the floor today proved not to flow enough water. I think it just leaks into the dirt 4 feet down. I have no place to drain my darkroom sinks. The real kicker is all units were supposed to have utility sinks and they ‘forgot’ to install mine…
One scenario is to install a large holding tank under the sinks, drain into them and use a pump to move the chemical water through the wall into the bathtub. The bathtub is directly against the wall the sink is on. Not a great plan, but simple.
Plan two is to run a drain pipe through the same wall past the bathtub end and basically run around the bathroom floor perimeter until it reaches a known clean out in the adjoining kitchen. It would be a 15 foot run without a slope.
I am running out of ideas. I want these sinks usable. This is my only available space (I own it) My retirement career requires working sinks. Digging a new drain through a the 12 inch slab and connecting to the buildings main sewer seems un-affordable and extremely disruptive to me and the other residents. Look what a mess it took the first time.
I have pictures of the last dig correcting the sabotage and I have pictures of the areas I want to use before drywall from construction.
Here is a link if you want to take a look. I hope the link works.
https://plus.google.com/photos/109984710897249736867/albums/5775956164956470449
BTW Darkroom waste water is considered safe for household drain disposal.
Thanks for any ideas you might have.
Randy Moe
August 14, 2012, 4:02 pm
Another update. I ran a hose from my sink to a 3/4 PVC pipe that comes up from my floor drain under the water heater. They installed the water heater so tight and on top of the floor drain I doubted it’s existence. My doubt stems from AC condensation dripping on the area. I just assumed the floor drain did not work. The drain does flow very well. I had a garden hose at full pressure draining down there for a couple hours. The AC condensation pipe was simply badly connected. My new plan is to use this 3/4 PVC tee as a darkroom sink drain. The floor drain is not sealed and the supply pipe has a 4 foot vent pipe. This seems the better solution than my prior plans.
I checked with some photo forums and many people are using a sump pump in a bucket to pump the sink water somewhere else.
Water usage does not need to be extravagant in a darkroom. The chemicals are mixed at low concentrations that many people can tolerate on their skin. The majority of water usage is running clean water over film or paper to remove chemical traces. This can be very low total volume and lasts for 10 60 60 minutes.
Now I need to find some money for temp control of my water supply. Intellifaucet is one method I may try.70 degrees is the ideal temp.
Thanks Reuben for a wonderful site and blog.
BTW I was born and raised in Minneapolis, but we moved when I was little. I have fond memories of Minnesota.
Thanks again!
Reuben Saltzman
August 15, 2012, 4:05 am
Randy – thanks for posting the updates on your project. I tried viewing the photos you linked to, but Google said “403. That’s an error.
We’re sorry, but you do not have access to this page. That’s all we know.”
I’m glad to hear you found a solution without having to break up your floor.
Stinky Plumbing Fixtures | Structure Tech Home Inspections
August 21, 2012, 4:52 am
[…] have their own built in traps, and so do floor drains. The trap on a floor drain is located below the surface of the floor – the photo below […]
Terry Akers
August 25, 2012, 2:45 pm
Rueben: My problem is similar to many of the posts here. However, my floor drain is a condensate drain that has two air conditioner condensate lines draining into it. The drain is PVC piping and stands up approximately 1.5 feet off the slab. There is no drain plub. House is 20 years old and for the first time this drain is over flowing. I know a condensation pump would solve my problem but have never needed one before. What are your suggestions about unstopping this type of drain? Thank you for your time and assistance.
Reuben Saltzman
August 28, 2012, 3:43 am
Hi Terry, is there a trap in the pipe above the floor? If not, I’ve never seen a drain like that. My suggestion would be to try the standard drain cleaning methods – ie, try starting with a small snake.
Terry Akers
August 28, 2012, 7:57 am
Reuben: I used a shop vac to suction out the standing water and could see a bend in the pvc pipe at the bottom (there is no trap). I originally thought the drain went to a gravel bed below it but the pipe appears to go toward the footing. Used a snake and it did take care of the problem. Thank you for your response.
Trent
August 28, 2012, 11:22 am
Good afternoon Reuben,
I am a first time home buyer who just purchased an 83 year old house that has a floor drain in the basement (that ties into the sewer line). The basement has slightly flooded once leaving the carpet saturdated and I have observed it closly since, I have noticed the flooding occurs when it rains or when washing machine, shower, or dishwasher are running and water in basement does not take to the drain (from dehumidifer and/or All-Dry system). The flooding has always been of clean water without smell. So I cannot figure out if the water is from my washer and shower backing up, water outside of home backing up (possible storm system?), or dehumidifier/all-dry not draining (bc other water exiting or water backing up?). I have tried snaking the drain and all clear. My first question, is what do you think is happening? And do you think it would be best to install sump pump and somehow connect with floor drain so when it overflows I can pump it outside the house? Or should I get my drain video inspected and accessed by a professional?
Reuben Saltzman
August 28, 2012, 2:38 pm
Trent – your first step should be to have the main drain line video scoped to figure out where the additional water is coming from. Rainwater shouldn’t be interfering with the main building drain.