To watch a video version of this podcast, click here: https://youtu.be/MVcLWet9gqw
In this episode of the Structure Talk Podcast, hosts Reuben Saltzman and Tessa Murry discuss various topics related to home inspection, including the latest trends in home inspection tools, a Q&A session addressing homeowner concerns, and the importance of combustion air in furnace safety. They also delve into the specifics of octopus furnaces and provide options for upgrading heating systems to ensure safety and efficiency. They discuss various topics related to home maintenance and safety, focusing on heating efficiency, foundation repair, chimney compliance, and carbon monoxide safety. They emphasize the importance of proper installations and the implications of neglecting safety standards in home systems.
Takeaways
The podcast is now available in video format.
Home inspection tools are evolving with trends.
Homeowners often have specific questions about their properties.
Combustion air is crucial for furnace safety.
Octopus furnaces are outdated and can pose safety risks.
Self-closing doors can help mitigate risks with furnaces in bedrooms.
Homeowners should consider upgrading to modern heating systems.
Real estate agents can be valuable referral partners for inspectors.
Small tweaks in business can lead to significant improvements.
Community events like Unite can enhance professional development. High-efficiency furnaces can save tenants money on utilities.
Changing one system can impact the entire home environment.
The need for qualified engineers in foundation assessments is critical.
Chimney height regulations are essential for safety and compliance.
Carbon monoxide levels should be zero in living spaces.
Old heating systems may pose safety risks and should be replaced.
Documentation is crucial when dealing with landlord issues.
Professional opinions can vary; seek multiple assessments.
Home safety should always be prioritized over cost.
Communication with landlords about safety issues is vital.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Structure Talk Podcast
02:50 Home Inspection Trends and Tools
05:58 Q&A Session: Addressing Homeowner Concerns
08:57 Combustion Air and Furnace Safety
11:59 Understanding Octopus Furnaces
14:53 Options for Upgrading Heating Systems
18:39 Efficiency in Heating Systems
20:41 Foundation Repair Insights
23:51 Chimney Code Compliance
28:19 Carbon Monoxide Safety Concerns
TRANSCRIPTION
The following is an AI-generated transcription from an audio recording. Although the transcription is mostly accurate, it will contain some errors due to inaudible passages or transcription errors.
Reuben Saltzman: Welcome to my house. Welcome to the Structure Talk podcast, a production of Structure Tech Home Inspections. My name is Reuben Saltzman. I’m your host alongside building science geek, Tessa Murry. We help home inspectors up their game through education, and we help homeowners to be better stewards of their houses. We’ve been keeping it real on this podcast since 2019, and we are also the number one home inspection podcast in the world, according to my mom.
Reuben Saltzman (00:01.324)
Welcome back to the show. Welcome to the structure talk podcast. We are doing this episode in video. That’s our new thing. I think we’re gonna be recording. Well, we always have recorded everyone in video, but we’re actually going to share this in video format on our YouTube channel. So exciting, right Tess? You’re excited. Okay, you know what? It’s not a YouTube podcast channel. It’s really just the structure tech YouTube channel.
Tessa Murry (00:20.571)
Wait, we have a YouTube channel?
Reuben Saltzman (00:30.508)
That’s where we’re sharing it. What do you think, Tess? Here we go. No, no. You’re gonna have to pause your camera or go off screen when you’re doing that, because people are gonna know. They’re gonna call us out on it. All right. You know what that reminds me of, Tess? Have you seen any of these videos where it’s… This is the trending thing now. It’s this little finger pointer on… You have.
Tessa Murry (00:32.887)
Well, here we go. I guess we can’t pick our noses anymore.
Tessa Murry (00:43.057)
What?
Tessa Murry (00:49.754)
On what?
Tessa Murry (00:58.401)
Yes! I love that thing! I love it so much!
Reuben Saltzman (00:59.81)
Like on a… Okay, all right. Well, there’s some home inspector who is doing this. It’s okay. If you don’t know what it is, it looks like a tiny little hand about twice the size of, well, it’s about the size of a quarter. It’s a little hand with a pointy finger. And then it’s on a Mickey Mouse hand, a white gloved hand.
Tessa Murry (01:19.889)
It looks like Mickey- a Mickey Mouse hand. It’s like a little white glove. Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (01:25.396)
on the end of an extension pole, it’s kind of like a radio antenna. It’s retractable. And we saw some home inspector doing this and people on the team internally were like, Ruben, you got to order those in bulk. And I know they’re just kidding, but too bad I ordered them in bulk. And I gave them, I put them in everybody’s bin at the office. So like make some videos.
Tessa Murry (01:29.925)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (01:39.253)
Yes. Yeah.
Tessa Murry (01:51.921)
Reuben Saltzman (01:53.09)
And I was thinking this would be a good one for nose picking. I don’t know. You just think of it. All right.
Tessa Murry (01:56.634)
Okay.
You know what? Shout out to, I don’t know if he listens to this podcast, probably not, but Paul Lee, Caliper Home Inspections. I think he’s in Florida, but he’s been using that little hand for a lot of his videos recently and I just enjoy it immensely. It’s so good. I don’t know why. It just makes everything so funny.
Reuben Saltzman (02:13.398)
as he
Reuben Saltzman (02:17.261)
Well, we’re gonna we’re gonna shamelessly rip him off. Although, no, I might. My wife and my kids geeked out when they saw these because apparently there’s a lot of videos with these going around right now. It’s going viral. So this is the hot topic. By the time this episode airs, it’s probably not going to be cool anymore. But too bad for now.
Tessa Murry (02:22.385)
Thanks
Tessa Murry (02:28.016)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (02:32.827)
going viral.
I didn’t even know.
Tessa Murry (02:40.785)
going to take it.
Reuben Saltzman (02:46.359)
We’re gonna try to, yeah, we’re gonna try to catch a little bit of that. Fun stuff. All right, Tessa, let me give a shout out to our show sponsors, Inspector Empire Builder, IEB. The topic we’re promoting right now is Unite. It’s the big conference. It’s happening May 28th through May 30th. You do not need to be a member of IEB to attend the conference. You can just come. And…
Tessa Murry (02:46.767)
It’s his life. Yeah.
All right, cool.
Reuben Saltzman (03:15.105)
So the topics, what’s going on, a few things to talk about that is gonna be happening at Unite. Number one, agent allies. How to turn real estate agents into consistent, high-level referral partners. Number two, business game changers. Small tweaks with massive impact. We’re gonna have Rob and Kat Lemoine go into some real, usable business adjustments to improve your efficiency and help make more money today.
And then number three, become a rock star speaker. This is for home inspectors who want to build confidence or want to build influence. And it talks about stage presence, storytelling and communication, all skills that increase trust and authority. I would love to be there. I cannot make it. I haven’t said that on the podcast yet. I meant to be there, but too many family things going on. I’m going to be gone too much the week before and the week after.
Tessa Murry (04:05.455)
Hmm
Reuben Saltzman (04:14.177)
You know what I did tell you? I haven’t done it yet, but I had another home inspector in Ohio who pretty much convinced me to go to a Spartan race. Did I ever, did I already talk about that on here?
Tessa Murry (04:17.349)
What?
Tessa Murry (04:26.481)
I remember you mentioned it to me once. can’t remember if was on the podcast or not.
Reuben Saltzman (04:29.631)
Okay. Yeah, it’s kind of like a Tough Mudder, but it’s longer and it’s a little bit more intense. And I think it’s like 14 miles or something. And I’ve never run that far in my life. And I’m like this far from committing to it. I’ve started training already. And it’s like right after Unite. So I’m going to be gone again. It’s like, all right, I don’t think I can make Unite. It’s in Ohio.
Tessa Murry (04:35.151)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (04:41.313)
my gosh.
Tessa Murry (04:54.82)
Where is it at?
Tessa Murry (04:58.807)
Lovely. like Columbus there? What city? Just curious.
Reuben Saltzman (05:00.012)
Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (05:04.2)
right outside of Cincinnati.
Tessa Murry (05:06.838)
nice. Okay, so you’re gonna have to deal with some hills.
Reuben Saltzman (05:10.093)
Yeah, apparently like major hills. It’s at a, it’s at a ski hill. Yeah. I don’t know. I might be talking about this too soon. I haven’t signed up for it yet. It was just on my mind while we’re talking about that. Cause it’s, it’s happening right after Unite. We’ll see.
Tessa Murry (05:13.957)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (05:24.535)
Yeah, yeah. Well, it’s always like, you know, you ever, you ever, as a kid, was watch that show Carmen Sandiego, Where in the World’s Carmen Sandiego? It’s like, where in the world is Ruben Saltzman? I just don’t know where you’re gonna be from week to week.
Reuben Saltzman (05:33.835)
Yeah, my kids did.
Right? Yeah. Yeah, there’s there’s a lot of travel involved with this. There. I’m fixing my mic. OK. Or my video. OK. Because I realized this is this is going to be broadcast recording.
Tessa Murry (05:49.433)
There we go.
Tessa Murry (05:54.545)
All 50 people are watching this right now. 10. All right. So what’s our topic for the day, Ruben? Obviously, we don’t have a guest on today. What are we talking about?
Reuben Saltzman (05:58.026)
We’ve got tens of viewers tests. This is a big deal. Tens, tens of viewers.
All right. Thanks for getting us on track. Thank you. Yeah. We are continuing what we were talking about two weeks ago, which is Q &A from my blog. Basically, I like like I mentioned before, I get questions coming from people all over the country constantly. Hey, I’ve got this pain with my house. What do I do? And I don’t know why I don’t know what’s
Tessa Murry (06:21.954)
Mm-hmm
Reuben Saltzman (06:34.455)
flawed in my character, but I feel obligated to answer complete strangers and Many times give in-depth answers to people. I will never ever meet again I Don’t know I don’t know
Tessa Murry (06:43.205)
you
Because you’re a good person, Ruben. You are a good person. And you know what? Let me just say, even if they don’t give back to you, I’m sure that you taking time out of your day to answer their very specific questions with comprehensive answers is very much appreciated. I’m saying that today just because I had a little brush with an angel today, Do we have time for a short little story? Taking us off track.
Reuben Saltzman (07:12.298)
Tass, this is our podcast. We can talk about whatever we want.
Tessa Murry (07:17.649)
So I was I got in my car today and I was leaving the parking lot and I heard this weird noise and it something made me stop and pull over and go check my car I’m like, I don’t know what this is. It sounds a little weird looked and sure enough I could hear this noise coming from the back right side and I was like and I looked closer and right there dead center on the top of my tire was this Screw nail thing sticking out
and I could literally hear the air coming out. And I was like, oh no. And I’m in a new location. I don’t have a auto mechanic that I go to or trust here. And I’m like, what do I do? So I just looked on Google Maps, Googled it really fast, closest auto shop, saw it, looked like it had a few good reviews, but you you never know. And I drive over there and literally like in the mile and a half I’m driving my PSI watch, it dropped from like 38 to like
Reuben Saltzman (07:46.933)
no.
Tessa Murry (08:15.761)
36 to 35 to 34. And I, yes, yes, yeah. And I pull up to this auto garage and it, you know, there’s like one guy working there and it’s pretty small. And I’m like, hey, I just ran over a screw. Do you patch tires? Could you help me? He’s like, well, we don’t patch tires anymore, but let me take a look at it. The guy took my car in, fixed it for me.
Reuben Saltzman (08:18.869)
as your blood pressure is doing the opposite.
Tessa Murry (08:42.001)
in like 10 minutes and then he didn’t charge me anything for it and I and then I was on my way and I was like that was the best possible scenario that could have happened I felt so grateful for it so what I’m saying Ruben you’re paying it forward with all those responses that you write and the time that you take to help those people I’m sure they are appreciating it you are you are yeah you are anywho
Reuben Saltzman (08:47.105)
Bye!
Reuben Saltzman (08:57.121)
Yeah!
Reuben Saltzman (09:04.494)
That’s what I’m hoping for. I hope so. I hope so.
Well, and so I figured, you know, as long as I’m taking the time to answer these and we get all these questions, these are real questions people have. Let’s talk about them on the air. Let’s cover it. Okay.
Tessa Murry (09:19.493)
Let’s do it. I think that a lot of these questions are really good questions. And I think last podcast, we talked about one question for maybe 20 minutes. So they’re not always super straightforward.
Reuben Saltzman (09:31.029)
Yeah, that was the one where you’re like, Ruben, you gave him some bad advice. You should have said this. And I was like, yeah, you’re probably right.
Tessa Murry (09:35.236)
it.
Go back and listen if you want to hear But yeah, no a lot of times it’s not always easy and it and it is kind of like a conversation Sometimes so I don’t know how you respond to all of these
Reuben Saltzman (09:51.074)
Well, you know what, Tess, I was leading it last time. I want to have you read some of these. obviously don’t do any show prep, but we got a rough idea of what we’re going to talk about. Seriously, yeah. But let’s have it in your voice, and I want to hear some of your answers too.
Tessa Murry (09:58.373)
Okay.
Tessa Murry (10:02.319)
Seriously.
Okay. Well, here we go. Okay, so let’s start off. This one came in beginning of this year. Hi, I had a question about a rental and if we could make a bedroom out of a room that currently has a bifold door to the furnace room. I found on your website that it says below and then quote, this is quoting of you, Ruben.
You can have a furnace installed in a bedroom as long as it’s a direct vent installation, or you can have it tucked away into a separate room opening to the bedroom as long as you have a solid weather stripped self-closing door. If you go that second route, you also need to have combustion air added to the room.” quote. And then this person writes, what do you mean by combustion air added to the room? Question mark.
And then this last sentence, which is my favorite, it says, and also it’s an octopus furnace. So is it allows for that type? Literally is what they said. I think they just mean, is that allowed? Yeah. Does it allow for that type? Thanks. All right. Okay.
Reuben Saltzman (11:12.077)
So does it allow, yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (11:18.667)
Okay, all right. So we got a few things to talk about here.
Tessa Murry (11:22.277)
first thing, it’s an octopus furnace? Yeah, yeah. Okay, that’s my first reaction an octopus furnace. Yikes. Okay. So the gigantic furnace that’s over 100 years old and takes up probably the entire basement.
Reuben Saltzman (11:38.648)
Most of the room. Yeah. Yeah. So they’ve got so they’ve got basically this furnace room and then they also want to have a bedroom but the bedroom is going to have a door that opens to this furnace room and said door is a bifold door and and it’s going to an octopus furnace. So how can they be legal? That’s what they’re asking. Right.
Tessa Murry (11:59.106)
I fold or
Tessa Murry (12:08.817)
I think so.
Reuben Saltzman (12:09.101)
Alright, where do you want to start, Tess?
Tessa Murry (12:12.793)
Well, their first question is, do mean by combustion air? And can they have an octopus furnace? Those are questions. combustion air added. Listen to our last podcast, we talk about combustion air for basement extensively. But just a duct that brings fresh air into the mechanical room, like a six inch duct that allows for the combustion appliances to work properly.
That’s one thing that you need to have. But the biggest thing is just the potential safety issue of having a giant octopus furnace on the other side of a bifold door, which would not be recommended at this point. What do you think?
Reuben Saltzman (12:59.211)
Yeah, well, and you know what? Why don’t I just share my screen? I pulled it up while you reading the question here. And so if anybody is watching the video, they can kind of follow along. I’m just going to share my. Well, OK, this is great podcast here. OK, here we go. There’s my screen in the fuel gas code. This is in the national code. It’s in the Minnesota code. We got a section.
It’s section 303.3 of the Minnesota fuel gas code. If you’re looking national, it might be a different section. But it talks about hazardous locations for appliances or prohibited locations for appliances. And one of the places that you cannot have a gas appliance is in a sleeping room. They say that’s a hazardous location for an appliance. But then they go on to give you a bunch of exceptions and they say,
Tessa Murry (13:31.366)
Hmm.
Reuben Saltzman (13:56.066)
You can’t have it there, but if you want to do these things, you actually can have it there. So, and you know, I’m pretty sure we did a whole podcast episode on this, but so we’re going to review it really quickly. One of the, one of the exceptions is if it’s a direct vent appliance and it’s installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions and all that. a direct vent is basically a sealed appliance. takes all of its combustion air from one pipe directly connected to the outdoors.
Tessa Murry (14:09.092)
And.
Reuben Saltzman (14:24.429)
mixes it with the fuel, burns it, and then it exhausts all of the air back to the outdoors and never communicates with the rest of the air in the house. If you got one of those furnaces, you can put it anywhere you want. You can put it in a kitchen, in a bathroom, in a bedroom, whatever. So that’s cool. But they don’t have that. They’ve got the gravity furnace or, and it could be any other type of furnace. It could be a gravity. It could be in, you know, a traditional 80%. Doesn’t matter what it is.
Tessa Murry (14:39.089)
Mm-hmm.
Tessa Murry (14:52.229)
Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (14:53.067)
if it’s anything other than direct vent, sealed combustion, there is another exception. And it’s the one that you had quoted where I said you can put it in a bedroom or in a room that’s only openable to the bedroom as long as it’s in a separate area like they’re describing and you have a self-closing, gasketed door separating those two rooms.
Tessa Murry (15:13.969)
Mm hmm.
Reuben Saltzman (15:22.551)
So the door’s always gonna be shut. You don’t have the potential for someone to leave that open. That’s perfectly acceptable. It is cool to do that. And what does that door look like? I’ve seen a handful of them. It basically looks like an exterior door. It’s got self closers like you would have between a house and a garage. And then like you described, you got this insulated tube dropping down into the room, providing combustion air. And you said a six inch combustion air duct.
Tessa Murry (15:23.269)
Mm-hmm.
Tessa Murry (15:30.033)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (15:39.921)
Mm-hmm.
now.
Reuben Saltzman (15:52.462)
And I know you said six inch because that’s what we always see. And if you look at the charts that they’ve got in the code books, if you’ve got, I believe the number is up to 150,000 BTUs of heating equipment, which is gonna cover just about every house. I mean, if you figure you got 100,000 BTU furnace and a 40,000 BTU furnace, you’re only at 140,000 BTUs and that’s a big furnace.
I think if you got up to like 150 then you can get away with a five inch combustion air duct But if your combustion air duct is going to be flexible material, which they all are You need to increase it by one inch So you need a six inch duct and that’s why we always see six inch ducts in houses So there’s there’s a little bit about why you were inclined to say a six inch duct
Tessa Murry (16:20.625)
Hmm.
Tessa Murry (16:27.95)
Okay.
Tessa Murry (16:34.203)
Yeah.
Okay.
Tessa Murry (16:43.756)
Yeah, wow.
Tessa Murry (16:48.113)
Well, thank you. I forgot about all those details. We went into the weeds there and that is good information, Ruben. Thank you for that. Okay, so there are two options. One, they can put in a new furnace. They can remove the old octopus one, put in a high efficiency sealed combustion or option two, put in a self-closing door with weather stripping, completely seal that room off and they’ll probably need to add combustion makeup for that space as well.
Reuben Saltzman (17:15.223)
They will certainly need to do that. And it’s not that big of a deal. I mean, you got to put a big hole in the side of your rim joist, like a six inch hole. And then you got this little terminal at the outside that lets air in. It’s weather protected. It’s got a little screen on there so you can’t get mice coming in. And then it’s just this insulated trunk, this duct that drops down to the floor. Maybe you put a J on the bottom or something. Not that big of a deal. Toughest part is just putting a hole in the side of your house. Right?
Tessa Murry (17:27.697)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (17:43.811)
You know, I know this, I guess, I guess so for you, Ruben. Yeah. All you need to do is cut a giant hole in your through your, structure of your home and your furniture. Just like an hour long project, you know, for the average person, it would be multiple days and multiple trips to Home Depot probably. But what I was going to say was, you know, I understand this is a rental property, so they probably are on a budget or they want to do this as efficiently and, you know, affordably as possible.
Reuben Saltzman (17:53.807)
You’re making fun of me, yes.
Tessa Murry (18:13.519)
However, taking a step back, okay, yes, it’s possible and these are ways they could do it. You have a octopus furnace. And that system is so antiquated and can have lots of potential issues with just like leakage of exhaust, you know, gas and combustion safety issues in general, which is also concern of someone sleeping down there, even if you do have a self-closing door.
And just the overall efficiency of it too. mean, those systems are like what, 50 % efficient AFUE? Yeah, and a high efficiency furnace is gonna be like 95 plus percent efficient. And so, I mean, if you’re gonna be keeping this property for long time, I’d say the way I would go would be just replace that old furnace, put in a high efficiency furnace and you have a furnace that is saving, well, I guess you’re saving the tenant money on utilities if the tenant is paying for that.
Reuben Saltzman (18:44.813)
Yeah, 50 to 60, yeah.
Tessa Murry (19:06.747)
But it’s just at some point you’re gonna have to replace that furnace. It’s a matter of time and why not now?
Reuben Saltzman (19:06.849)
Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (19:14.957)
But I mean, we talk about this on the podcast. You go replacing that octopus, you go high efficiency. Now you’re losing a bunch of air changes, Tess. Now what else is gonna go wrong?
Tessa Murry (19:22.673)
You change one thing. You change one thing and you impact a lot more. know. Hopefully you’ve got, you know, exhaust ventilation installed in this house because you’re going to need more mechanical ventilation after you replace this old furnace that was allowing these air exchanges to happen. You bring up a good point, Ruben. Yes, it will trigger a chain of of
Reuben Saltzman (19:31.725)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (19:49.957)
changes in how the house operates and how air and moisture moves through the house. So it’s a good point. It’s a good point.
Reuben Saltzman (19:51.479)
Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (19:56.504)
But they didn’t, they didn’t even say where they are. mean, if they’re in Minnesota, everything you just said is very applicable. But I mean, if they’re down in Texas, does any of that even matter? I mean, do they even care about this? Like
Tessa Murry (20:03.814)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (20:07.297)
No, I… depending on where you’re at in Texas, I don’t think you have a furnace. But yeah, good. I understand what you’re saying, though. Yes. I don’t know. That’s a good question.
Reuben Saltzman (20:13.397)
Yeah. All right. Fair point. Yeah, true.
Reuben Saltzman (20:20.663)
So our answer is it depends.
Tessa Murry (20:22.961)
As always Hopefully we made that crystal clear for that person. Okay We did you did yeah, we did
Reuben Saltzman (20:25.197)
All right. All right. Yeah. No, we did. We did a good job. We answered the questions they asked.
Reuben Saltzman (20:36.481)
Yeah, we, it was a team effort. All right. Okay. All right. Ask me the next one test.
Tessa Murry (20:41.434)
On to the next.
Okay. What’s the next one, Ruben? Do want me to read it do want to read it? Go ahead.
Reuben Saltzman (20:48.674)
Go for it. I’ll tell you the answer because you’re going to defer to me for the answer on this one.
Tessa Murry (20:52.451)
Okay. yes. Yes, I am. Okay. Hello. In your quote, foundation repair secrets podcast, you talk with RK Bob Brown, it was mentioned that there was a Minnesota company listed in his directory. I was just wondering if anyone there has had any luck finding or contacting the company, RLM and associates, or if you have recommendations for foundation engineering companies.
Reuben Saltzman (21:22.571)
Nope, next question.
Tessa Murry (21:24.013)
you
Tessa Murry (21:27.971)
Alright, we’re making up for the last time here. Next!
Reuben Saltzman (21:28.013)
No, seriously that RLM and associates it’s listed on his website as being you know, the contact in Minnesota They are not a Minnesota company. They have zero Minnesota presence I don’t know why they’re listed on his website. I have not found any kind of geotechnical engineer here in the Twin Cities. Sorry Really that it really is a short and sweet answer short and bitter answer. No
Tessa Murry (21:37.724)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (21:42.659)
Really?
Tessa Murry (21:51.301)
Ugh.
Tessa Murry (21:55.951)
She wasn’t better. Did you do some research and actually like look and do some digging after our podcast with RK Bob Brown? Okay. All right.
Reuben Saltzman (22:02.945)
five minutes. I did not spend a ton of time on it, but I did do a little bit of digging. You know, I Googled the term and I looked up a few companies. I can’t find anyone. I won’t say I did an exhaustive search, but I did as much as I was willing to do.
Tessa Murry (22:08.547)
Yeah. Yeah.
Tessa Murry (22:20.315)
Yeah.
Well, and you know, after that podcast, it kind of struck me that there’s just, there’s a need for, for engineers that, you know, can assess those foundation issues and it’s not a company that’s trying to sell a repair, you know? And so I guess that seems like a hole in my mind. that, you know, there’s a, there’s a need, but it’s not being fulfilled really. So I don’t know, does structure tech have any recommendations? Do you guys still refer?
Reuben Saltzman (22:47.553)
Yes.
Tessa Murry (22:52.741)
clients to, structural engineers for large cracks. Okay.
Reuben Saltzman (22:57.899)
Yeah, yeah, we do. Yep, yep. There’s one CBS. Gosh, now I can’t remember what it stands for. Rob Vassallo. He’s been on the podcast. Yep.
Tessa Murry (23:08.792)
Rob Vassallo. Is that with? Mm-hmm. Yep, we’ve had, shout out to Rob, we’ve had Rob on.
Reuben Saltzman (23:15.869)
Awesome. And then there’s another one, Criterium and it used to be Paul Shemnowsky was the guy I think he’s I’m sure he’s been on the podcast too. he sold the company and I actually just recently met with the new owner of the company and, he’s, he’s an engineer and Paul’s still on the team. So we’ve got a couple of good companies that we trust. Yeah.
Tessa Murry (23:20.997)
Okay.
Tessa Murry (23:27.941)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (23:33.509)
Okay. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Good to know. Good to know. Okay. Moving on. Are we good to move on? Next question.
Reuben Saltzman (23:46.357)
Yeah, let’s move on and we’ll admit the address here, of course.
Tessa Murry (23:51.153)
Yeah, okay. Your company did a home inspection in St. Paul. It’s a house in St. Paul. We just had our chimney rebuilt from the roof line up. My understanding is the chimney needs to be three feet tall from where it penetrates the roof and two feet taller from any nearby peaks. Our chimney penetrates the roof at the peak ridge level.
The contractor is saying it only needs to be two feet from the penetration, not three feet, which is correct in code. Also, is it measured to the crown or flutile that comes out of the top? Ruben, take it away.
Reuben Saltzman (24:29.901)
Okay, so All right. So he is correct. His understanding is right. You got a chimney coming out of the roof It needs to be at least three feet above the roof surface Definitely and then the two feet you saying it needs to be two feet above anything else that’s nearby and You measure out ten feet. It needs to be two feet higher than any other things on the roof any roof angles slopes, whatever
Tessa Murry (24:35.953)
Mm.
Reuben Saltzman (24:58.593)
within a 10 foot radius. And that’s so you don’t get like these wind eddies coming along over over a ridge and then pushing exhaust gas back down. Yep, he’s completely right. As for his contractor saying it only needs to be two feet. I don’t know where he’s getting that from. Because let’s just take a look at what the code says. It’s real simple. This is the this is a national code. It’s also in Minnesota.
Tessa Murry (25:20.881)
Thank
Reuben Saltzman (25:25.229)
It’s it’s section are 1003.9 and it says chimneys shall extend not less than two feet higher than any portion of the building within 10 feet But shall not be less than three feet above the highest point where the chimney passes through the roof Plain and simple. So don’t know what is contractors looking at or thinking about he’s not understanding how the code is written There are a million illustrations out there
showing exactly what this is. mean, if you go to your Google machine and you type in, show me an illustration of the required code, required chimney height, you’re going to get a diagram that shows you exactly what we just talked about.
Tessa Murry (25:59.247)
I’m
Tessa Murry (26:07.767)
Yeah. Well, I feel like an idiot because when you read that, it means nothing to me and I’m confused too. I’m a visual person, so I gotta pull up the illustration and then it makes sense.
Reuben Saltzman (26:17.335)
Sure, sure. But the one question he had that I could not answer, I had to turn to our chimney guy, Scott, for the official ruling on this. He said, also, is it measured to the crown or flue tile that comes out the top? Which one is it?
Tessa Murry (26:28.92)
Okay.
Tessa Murry (26:39.909)
Very specific. Well, I was very impressed by your response to this, so now I know you had to do a little research here. Okay.
Reuben Saltzman (26:46.989)
Yeah, yeah, I was not able to just fire off an email. I sent him an email like the following day after I had my facts straight. But I’m glad he asked because I didn’t know. Now I know. All right, drum roll. The answer to the question you measure to the top of the clay tile floo.
Tessa Murry (26:52.567)
Nice. Wow. Wow. Yeah.
Tessa Murry (27:08.461)
Okay, all right. Very interesting. Learn something new again.
Reuben Saltzman (27:08.833)
There, there it is. So roof surface, top of the grid, all right, now test, someone’s gonna write in and they’re gonna say, okay, it’s on a sloped roof. Do we measure from the bottom or the top of the slope? I don’t know. I don’t know. Maybe the middle to the center.
Tessa Murry (27:29.637)
Consult with your roofing professional actually better yet probably check with the city inspector who’s gonna come out and approve it Ask them what they want There you go. Ask them what they want
Reuben Saltzman (27:36.375)
Probably the authority having jurisdiction. Yeah, because they’re always right.
by definition, they are the authority. If they look at the code book and their interpretation is three feet means two feet, they’re right in their city. It’s funny how that works, isn’t it? Yeah.
Tessa Murry (27:45.329)
I’m
They were right.
Tessa Murry (28:02.273)
yeah, okay. good times. All right. Ooh.
Reuben Saltzman (28:04.333)
Okay. All right. That was an easy one. All this next one tests. I don’t know. We’re going to have to shorten this one down. This is like going to take the rest of this podcast and to just to read the question.
Tessa Murry (28:12.613)
Well, in base it, yeah.
Tessa Murry (28:19.185)
Okay, well, I’ll recap it because I read it recently, unless you want to. You want to recap? Okay. Okay, so there’s a woman that lives in California and she’s in a rental. She’s renting and she has a wall furnace, like a gas furnace heater. And it sounds like she, it’s been tested by a few different people. Three different licensed HVAC companies have come out to check for a gas leak.
Reuben Saltzman (28:22.335)
Okay, no, no, it, please.
Tessa Murry (28:47.067)
but also carbon monoxide issues. And two companies tested for carbon monoxide. Both ran the unit for 30 plus minutes and set up monitors outside of the vents and both tests came back positive as high as 11 parts per million. Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (29:02.997)
Okay, now let me pause on that test. Just so we don’t have to come back to it. As home inspectors, we don’t need to do any type of carbon monoxide testing, but at StructureTech, we use combustion analyzers, we test furnaces, and we always test for carbon monoxide in the flue. Now sounds like this company, they’re not checking in the flue, they’re checking in the vents. Like the air coming out, not, yeah.
Tessa Murry (29:08.731)
Mm-hmm.
Tessa Murry (29:22.245)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Vince. Yeah. That’s what I was wondering. Yeah, it’s like the supply registers. They’re checking those. Right. Right outside of the furnace. Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (29:34.071)
The supply register, although there is only one supply register in a wall furnace.
Yeah, and they’re saying there’s carbon monoxide getting put out into the room. Got it. Okay, just wanted to clarify. Yep. Okay, go on.
Tessa Murry (29:50.127)
That’s how I’m, yeah, that’s how I’m rating it. Yeah, so the HVAC company was adamant that even if the gas leak could be fixed, the CO levels are a concern and the whole unit should be replaced. But the landlord is skeptical because they think that the HVAC companies are just trying to sell them a new furnace. So, and then to make it more complicated, I guess there was a local gas company that came out to test it, inspect it, and they only found one part per million after running it for 10 minutes.
and they red tagged the furnace because of the gas leak, but they weren’t concerned about the carbon monoxide. So she’s got all these different numbers, all these different people telling her different things. She’s got a landlord who doesn’t want to take the gas company seriously. It’s been red tagged for a gas leak, but not for CO. And she just doesn’t know what to do about this. So I don’t know why she’s confused.
Reuben Saltzman (30:43.425)
Alright, so Tessa, what do you tell her about carbon monoxide coming out of the vent into the room?
Tessa Murry (30:47.025)
Ugh.
You don’t want to have any carbon monoxide coming out of the vent into the room. should have zero parts per million. Anything more than that is not good. So that is a safety concern. Any type of carbon monoxide is a safety concern. And that’s a harder issue to fix than a gas leak. A gas leak can be fixed pretty easily, usually.
Reuben Saltzman (31:00.066)
Correct.
Reuben Saltzman (31:05.003)
Yeah, and I…
Reuben Saltzman (31:12.653)
And this person’s saying, it’s a home built in the 60s in California. I would bet you just about anything that wall furnace is original to the home. They don’t make those anymore, do they? I mean…
Tessa Murry (31:24.555)
Yeah, definitely.
No. No. I don’t think so. I’m guessing it’s over 60 years old.
Reuben Saltzman (31:31.135)
Yeah, I don’t think I’ve seen a wall furnace newer than 40, 50 years old. Those are that so this is surely an original dinosaur of a wall furnace. So what should she do?
Tessa Murry (31:36.912)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (31:41.45)
Yeah, vintage.
Tessa Murry (31:46.519)
Well, I guess she’s gonna have to have the landlord get on her side about if it were me, we’re just replacing this thing because it’s not safe with the carbon oxide. I mean, you could try and have companies come out and try and fix why it’s leaking carbon oxide or producing too much carbon oxide and coming in room, but that on piece of equipment that old, they’re known for having that issue. It just makes more sense to just have it removed. So I don’t know.
Want to try and have your landlord replace it and I don’t know how you do that if the landlord doesn’t want to do that I Mean you’ve already had two HVAC companies come out and tell you it had Carbon monoxide leading leaking out Do you really need a third company to come out and tell you that I had carbon monoxide leaking out and you’ve also had another? Utility company red tag it for another reason. So for me, I think that’s a pretty strong
Reuben Saltzman (32:21.719)
Yeah. Yeah.
Tessa Murry (32:43.985)
you know, strong evidence there to give to your landlord. It’s been red tagged for the gas leak and it’s got high carbon monoxide coming out and it’s not safe. What more do you need?
Reuben Saltzman (32:57.537)
Case closed. Yep. That’s what I told her in my email too. Yeah. Yep. Yep. No bueno.
Tessa Murry (32:59.555)
I mean that. Did you? Yeah.
Yeah, we wish you luck. I know that that is a that can be a battle and it’s tough when you’re a tenant, but hopefully you can convince your landlord. I don’t know what kind of laws are in place for renters in California, but this is a life safety device or a life safety issue. So hopefully you can get that replaced.
Reuben Saltzman (33:24.705)
Yeah, I don’t know why a landlord would be fighting this. Like you don’t want to kill your tenant. I mean, you get some kind of wrong. I don’t know. I’m not an attorney. I shouldn’t go here. But it just seems like there could be a lot of liability on you if you’ve had a couple of professionals come in and say, this is a safety issue. And you say, bad. We’re going to leave it. What are you doing?
Tessa Murry (33:39.045)
Yeah.
Tessa Murry (33:42.884)
There could.
Tessa Murry (33:50.129)
Exactly. My only piece of advice for her would be get all that stuff in writing and submit it to your landlord so that they can’t deny that they didn’t, you know, they didn’t know that it was an issue. Yeah, and actually just talking about this, you know, our friend, home inspector Skip Walker, we’ve had him on the podcast to talk about things before, but he’s been involved in some cases, I think out in California that have involved some deaths from
this exact situation. So it is a serious issue and if your landlord needs to talk to another person, maybe that’s a good resource.
Reuben Saltzman (34:34.039)
Yeah, yeah, good, good professional out there. Talk to another home inspector in your area. Yeah.
Tessa Murry (34:37.355)
Yeah. Yeah. Yep. An unbiased third party. Yeah.
Reuben Saltzman (34:44.749)
All right, should we do one more or should we call it a day? What do you think, Tess?
Tessa Murry (34:45.582)
Okay.
Tessa Murry (34:49.937)
Let’s, you know what, we still have a few more questions. How about for the sake of our listeners, we end this one. I think it’s a reasonable amount of time and we can come back and continue with part, I guess this is part three.
Reuben Saltzman (35:02.721)
We will resume with part three. Okay. And just a reminder to our listeners, if you’ve got questions, we’d be happy to talk about it on the air. can email us. Email us, it’s podcast at structuretech.com. Happy to answer your questions and we read all the emails and we appreciate you listening or watching or watching. Yes.
Tessa Murry (35:27.855)
watching. Ruben, can you wave with the little hand?
Reuben Saltzman (35:34.861)
Thank you. This is great. Great, great pod. That was the pattern. Yes, you knew it. Yes. You lead with the rest. I’ve seen how they do it. Great pod. Thanks for tuning in and we will catch you next week.
Tessa Murry (35:36.913)
That’s the pageant wave. didn’t know you knew how to do that. Elbow, elbow, wrist, wrist.
Tessa Murry (35:50.145)
this is fun. Bye.